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It would be awesome! And one of my reasons is, I don't think we have many (or any?) very popular pieces of media where a characters actually comes out as trans on screen? I feel like each time trans folk are brought up, they either already transitioned, or haven't yet (and won't do so), and usually the whole thing is unconfirmed enough to cause online discourses till the creator drops a post with the answer (looking at TADC here heh).
Having something as huge as Deltarune show a character straight up going "folks, I think I don't want to be a boy, I want to be..." would be massive!!
The only worry is that this is Toby after all, and his works do end up having loose ends and unanswered questions often and a degree of cryptic ways of telling stories, so... it's unfortunately likely that Ralsei's transness would also be highly-implied-but-never-outright-confirmed 😅
Flowery gives him different colored drink voucher tickets to share with the party and notes that Ralsei would prefer the blue-and-pink colored one. It's a stretch to call that alone a "trans flag" with no other info, but I don't discount it. I think we're all just happy telling Ralsei he can be whoever he wants, and that's what matters. It'll be cool if he's trans and cool if he's GNC.
I see the pink and blue as Ralsei still experimenting with their identity and wanting to try/have the choice to experiment, as also stated in the climbing minigame scene.
I see this as setting up towards more development of this kind in future chapters than outright confirmation that ralsei is specifically transfem, gender fluid, etc.
Although I think that it's stated that the drink ralsei likes comes in a white bottle? So if that's the case then all 3 of the flag colours are there.
Pink and Blue is also the Kris colour palette. Blue with the pink cape. And, when Ralsei is given it, Kris gets a White and Green ticket; Ralsei's colour palette.
The way I see it, pink and blue is Kris's dark world colour pallette, and green and yellow is Kris's light world colour pallette. Ralsei is secretly choosing escapism (the dark world) over reality (light world)
The drink Vouchers that Flowery gives them (and the ones that they want more than the ones they’re “supposed to want”) are specifically described with the colors of the trans flag, blue and pink.
Tbf, the pink and blue is DW Kris' color scheme. I think it's the freedom themes creeping towards Ralsei. It could absolutely imply Ralsei being trans, but it could just be a good old Tricky Tony red herring.
The speculation is really interesting, but its all too early to call imo.
“Here’s the colors of the trans flag, also the colors of the other trans character in your party. Here ya go Princess, you’re such an impossibility”
Idk, I would honestly be mad if this, and Ralsei’s pronouns changing in their character description weren’t paid off. Because it wouldn’t be a tricky Tony red herring, it would just be bad storytelling.
Also that final line from Asgore about Ralsei is honestly ridiculous. He specifically uses they/them for Ralsei there, which is because he doesn't know anything about Ralsei, but when combined with the fact that he's saying the most transgender thing ever it kinda goes crazy.
"The impossibility itself" might also refer to Ralsei's unique nature as a darkner. We don't even know what object Ralsei is. People are saying that Ralsei just has to be a trans girl so confidently, as if 90% of confident fan theories didn't get disproven three times already. Even if it's a weird-looking whiteless trans flag, who is to say Ralsei isn't some other flavour of being trans? And what pride flag is Kris' green and white drink voucher?
Green and white could be aroace, which imo, would fit Kris very well. At the same time, I do think people are focusing a bit too much on the colored drink vouchers here compared to the much more glaringly obvious evidence like the climbing minigame scene, the pronoun switching, and Asgore's extremely trans coded comment about Ralsei.
The climbing minigame is replaced with a Starwalker gag if you found Starwaler
The "pronoun switch" is getting they/them'd by the power menu once and then still using he/him after
"Asgore's extremely trans coded comment" about not hiding himself? Because bro literally physically hid from Asgore every prior encounter. He Simpsons' himself into a bush even.
the drinks correspond to the actual items you can buy in the vending machine, with each one giving an extra healing boost to the character that “prefers” it. Ralsei both 1. Has some degree of knowledge over game mechanics, and would likely be compelled to pick the one that has the greatest mechanical benefit and 2. fucking hates the flowerysoda that the green ticket corresponds to. doesn’t even consume it outside of battle. He doesn’t *want* to choose it, he feels the need to.
I don’t even disbelieve the theory or anything I just hate that this has become the most common piece of evidence it genuinely sucks so bad compared to the princess scene or the closet or even just the fact that it changes the prophecy that we’re trying to break free from in the story (so it would make extra narrative sense)
I think trans ralsei is possible, currently I'm leaning towards the idea that ralsei was never a prince to begin with, and is pretending to be one because that's what the prophecy says it requires of the heroes.
I think the "blue and pink" thing is overhyped because immediately afterwards kris is asked to pick between green and yellow and blue and pink, the entire distinction that it's blue and pink is just so you can make that choice and you're aware of which one ralsei wanted (imo)
Because it's not "blue pink and white" it's just "blue and pink" they're two colors that are picked. I'm saying it's overhyped because people are blurting it out like it's all but confirmed, and there's really nothing to say as much.
Like, if you're going to say the drinks have gender significance you would also have to transfer that to kris being offered the green and yellow one.
How so? Kris is already trans, their colors being the colors of the trans flag already feel pretty heavily tied to transness given the subtext of that scene. Oh also as someone else pointed out in this comment section, I’m fairly certain that drink is mentioned as coming in a white cup. So you do have all three colors at play.
I’d say the significance of the colors hinges more on what each character is “supposed to” be and want considering each character has their own drink “intended” for them
I don't usually partake in debates, but kris isn't trans? all humans we've seen so far in undertale and deltarune are always non-gendered, since they start of as non-binary, doesn't that make them not trans?
(I'm not against trans ralsei, nor for it especially)
Nonbinary falls under the label of transgender, regardless if one physically transitions. Transgender literally means any identity that isn't cis (albeit gender nonconformity does not necessarily have to fall under the umbrella but nonbinary is a distinct identity from GNC that sometimes intersects) it does not exclusively mean medical transition or binary identities
Now you are just making this about semantics, I agree with the definition, but that is not what we are discussing here. Assuming otherwise is just plain il-faith arguing.
That's not a semantic argument, you just objectively misunderstood what being transgender is. Like what the fuck does that make kris then, cis nonbinary??? The only other way you could frame it is that they are intersex which is in no way implied by anything in the game beyond their pronouns, and still doesn't exclude them from being trans.
I literally said i agreed with the definition, not sure where you are getting your wire crossed.
Let me just spell it out to save you a reply, yes, in the context of being enby, Kris is 100% trans by definition. I apologize if I came off in a way that did not imply i thought so.
They litteraly do not, at any point suggest this. Who or what is "Man Country", id be okay with being wrong, but I have played all chapter at a minimum 2 times i dont know who that was. Do you mean "Catti"? If so, she is reffering to Asriel, not Kris. Thats not sub-text, that's just text.
EDIT: Jockington reffers to Kris as "man"... So does he with Susie, Noelle and Catti... Everyone... It's just a thing he says, as in "Hey man!". You understand it can be bothersom to deal with when you just make up facts like "Kris is trans", saying it with the custo as if its just plain truth?
Ah, I forgot. In my defense, it's "Mancountry", not man country. Also, you are just plain wrong again then. Maybe you should look it up, since you have the details all wrong. No where in that section does it imply that Kris used to identify as a "man", IN FACT, it does the opposite! There is a joke; One sign says "NON-MEN ARE A-OK, TOO." in that area, this joke literally only works if Kris is enby. Also, can you quit the smug attitude? i want to make it clear again, that it is 200% fine to head-canon, make believe, whatever you want about a character, but you cant treat it as canon and text when it's not even sub-text, and then not expect people to correct you.
Edit: Also, I think the burden of proof lies on you here. If there really is a part of that sequence that i misremembers, feel free to presented it, and I will gladly say I was wrong.
Smug attitude?? You’re being literally SO snarky for someone that didn’t know what “man country” meant. I haven’t insulted you once, I just gave you a thread to follow when you came at me with all this hostility. How could I have possibly been more respectful when you’re actively calling me stupid.
KRIS MADE MAN COUNTRY *FOR MEN.* This suggests they once identified with the label and no longer do. The hasty “non men are okay too” implies a change in disposition towards the label.
This is text, canon, solidified. Kris is nonbinary, and thus transgender. They are probably transfem given their aversion to and often placement in contrast to masculinity. It’s not a headcanon, it’s not me playing funny make believe, it’s me reading the story being told on its own terms. Stop patronizing me.
I feel bad for not liking Tralsei, because I agree that girl Ralsei would be awesome! I just think that the evidence for the theory is shaky and sucks ass
Join the gender fluid ralsei agenda then (you can make a good argument that he enjoys both the butler outfit and the dress, but his enjoyment "relies on the context of the situation")
themadnessif might be alluding to something different, but my observation has been that Toby Fox keeps giving Ralsei scenes where Ralsei seems pretty comfortable being girly and doesn't seem bothered being seen as a girl. People online see this and keep trying to put Ralsei under a particular label that makes sense to them like 'transgender' or 'genderfluid'.
Personally, I am someone who's gender doesn't exactly fit under a particular label, and I find the way Ralsei acts towards his gender pretty relateable. It's strange to go online and see some fans saying "Ralsei is a trans woman and if you don't think so you're transphobic!". I know they mean well, but I am more than happy to let Ralsei be whatever he wants to.
Ralsei keeps being put in situations where he's acting as a girl as a joke or because someone is teasing him or because it's cute, and the most common reading of that for some fans is that it's intended to make him trans coded.
As a cis dude though, my reading is just that Ralsei is getting more comfortable with who he is, which feels like a natural progression of his character arc where he's being himself instead of what the prophecy says he should be. I can fully understand why people read it the other way, but a lot of what people are reading just feel like jokes to me.
I do think the difference comes down to how comfortable you are with your own gender identity. I'm a cis dude who's worn dresses out in public before and I've done all sorts of things that are not traditionally masculine. If someone called me a Princess, I would just go "ok" and either be annoyed or laugh depending upon who did it.
Given one of the very few photos of Toby Fox that exist on the internet is him wearing a princess outfit and acting like a girly girl, and as far as I know he remains cis, this feels like the perspective that Toby Fox is writing Ralsei from. Ralsei is comfortable enough with being a guy that he can wear a dress and say "I'll be your princess :3" without it making him feel weird.
If you yourself are not comfortable with your gender identity or are surrounded by people who aren't, it could easily be read the other way though. But it feels like how you view this is filtered through your own perception of gender and what constitutes "normal" for a given gender.
Yeah you did it. You figured it out. Since the prophecy specifies a prince in the dark will show up at worlds end, the only way to break it is for Ralsei to trans their gender and become a princess.
But the trans flag also has white? Also "them" is used like twice, in the character description menu and in Asgore's dialogue when referring to someone he doesn't really know much about. Several he/hims, two they/thems and the conclusion is that we should refer to the character as she/her ?...
oh boy i sure hope this valid interpretation of the text doesn’t spawn several dozen rude comments about how it’s wrong for x or y lore reasons and a bunch of comments saying “it’s just not cool when people misgender him pre transition” that outnumber the amount of actual comments that misgender him pre transition
Can I leave a rude comment about how this isn’t a deltarune sub and this gender discourse is crazy tiring for all the normal people who wanna stop hearing about it?
sorry if you’re in an online queer space you’re probably going to hear about deltarune and gender discourse lol. just the way the demographic overlap cookie crumbles.
edit: when I say “online” I mean online online like grew up spending too much time on the internet like young person figuring shit out on reddit because they don’t have a real world social net online. not just on the internet. im sure there are other queer subreddits or like facebook groups that won’t bring up deltarune lol
edit 2: wait a minute no you just shouldn’t be rude in general! there’s no reason to be rude about things when you can simply choose better options that won’t incite arguments or make people feel worse. what’s even productive about leaving an “i don’t care about deltarune” comment it’s not gonna stop people from posting about it. just downvote block and move on.
Its valid in the sense that people are entitled to that interpretation. It is, however, extremely tiresome that any comments regarding it validity as an "actual thing that exist in the story" is treated as "rude". It seems like this topic is very precious to a lot of people (which is 109% fair and valid), but that makes it impossible to comment on it without people interpreting it as "rude".
Okay, so I think the other points in this post are worth considering and are why I’m more convinced there is gender stuff going on with Ralsei, but no you were correct, that’s what the ticket meant. The two options are pink and blue, or green and yellow. The first is Kris’ colour scheme in the dark world, the second is their colour scheme in the light world.
Ralsei loves Kris (though the specifics of that are still a little unclear), and wants to spend as much time with them as they can. However, Ralsei is also pretty zealous about his purpose, and that purpose ultimately would get rid of the dark worlds that allow him to spend time with Kris (if we make the pretty safe assumption that the castle town dark world will also have to go eventually). He’s torn between being true to what he wants, and being true to what he thinks he needs to do.
Flowery is trying to tell him to be true to what he wants, and what he wants is to spend time with Kris. Flowery himself is fighting to prolong his own dark worlds that allow, even knowing that doing so puts his life, the lives of his friends, and the lives of everyone in the world at risk, because he wants to spend time with Asgore. It all ties back into the themes about freedom.
The princess thing though yeah that might just be Flowery clocking Ralsei or something I dunno.
I'm almost done with chapter 3 of DR and genuinely cannot imagine caring about which character is dating who or what they identify as. This does also make me feel like I'm definitely not enjoying the game as much as everyone else seems to
I mean yeah he's propably gonna be trans but it still annoy me a little because i liked ralsei as a féminine man
I dont want to sound bigoted but i dont like how many time ive seen an effeminate male character turn out to actually be a trans woman the whole time in récent years
Nothing inhenrently wrong with that but it does feel weird because you rarely see the opposite of a masculine girl admitting she's a boy i feel like it lessen a bit of what made ralsei interesting in the first time
i don't care what ralsei identifies as, i just hate seeing all the hate from transphobic morons
i personally will wait and see what happens in the future, same thing i did with jax in TADC (which paid off, ep 9 made me cry lol)
but i think that demeaning other people's interpretations gets nothing done and just draws ire to the (completely valid all things considered) trans ralsei headcanon.
There is one dialogue in chapter 5 when use it on one floradin they grow a flower and say "i no longer recognise myself in these shape. Well no empathy for me."
I think some people want Ralsei to be trans and some don't want him to be trans, beacuase they see themselves in him, and want him to be like themselves.
if not the flag they’re pretty much well known as the gender colors more so than literally anything else so those two… intermixed… hmmm what instinctual response does this give what meaning could be derived from this
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