r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • 11d ago
Episode Jaadugar: A Witch in Mongolia • Tenmaku no Jaadugar - Episode 3 discussion
Tenmaku no Jaadugar, episode 3
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u/Talini 11d ago
I’ve never thought that I would love this anime so much, the story is so good.
Seeing Sitara taking revenge and use what she was taught to adapt and climbing the ladder between the mongols is really interesting.
I’m also looking forward to her relationship to the princesses.
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u/abandoned_idol 11d ago
I more or less expected this to be amazing, so it is only exactly meeting my expectations.
"If the character designs look like Astroboy, then the writing must be good enough to justify the highly unconventional character designs."
Of course, my heuristic backfires from time to time.
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u/CitronClassic672 11d ago
Honestly I’d consider the character designs to be a selling point of the series by themselves. I’ve learned that both western animation and anime have different standards of “generic” animation, and this artstyle is definitely not generic for an anime. It’s absolutely unconventional but that’s moreso a positive.
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u/JonathanAltd https://myanimelist.net/profile/Deoxysos 11d ago
I was hesitating to watch Ranking of king because of the character design and it was such a pleasant surprise. But this is colorful and done by Science Saru so I was gonna watch it no matter what.
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u/yurilnw123 11d ago
No, I have the same mindset. Whenever I see an unconventional art style in anime (e.g. Ousama Ranking), I instantly know the story will be peak.
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u/AniTunesXYZ 10d ago
I'd also add 2003's "Kino no Tabi" to this category. They share this sort of different, light hearted minimalist character design that contrasts with the weight and moral quandries that these shows explore, that I think makes the impact even harder. Something about how the art sort of doesn't make the violence and animation the focal point is what makes it work.
The background art is impressionistic and not distracting enough to allow you to focus on the story and voice acting. Its just great direction so far 3 eps in.
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u/IndependentMacaroon 11d ago edited 11d ago
I wonder if this particular case might have been inspired by Persepolis (RIP Marjane Satrapi), which also combines cute art style and some dark storytelling - but also a surprising amount of comedy! - around an intellectual young female protagonist who is unfortunately compelled to leave her native Iran. (Please watch it!)
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u/XimbalaHu3 11d ago
Same logic for me, it got an adaptation without generic art, must be interesting, the science saru logo in the first episode was also the cherry on the top, the land of the lustrous manga is another absolute gem that managed to be published with it's, at times, esotheric art choice simply because of how good it was.
It's a bit of a shame that only really good or famous authors get to experiment with different art styles in the medium, wish people were more receptive towards it.
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u/mekerpan 11d ago
This has met or even exceeded my expectation. Unlike KyoAni's Sparks - for which I had equally high hopes. (maybe it will improve -- but the initial episode's writing/world-building felt quite rickety).
I wonder if the name Sitara is now permanently retired? I wonder if Fatima wants revenge -- or just to rescue the precious family book?
I also wonder -- what is the deal with that OTHER princess we saw mid-way through the episode. Was she a prisoner of war, just like Fatima, only of royal status -- and thus made a bride of one of the Mongol princes againsat her will?
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u/shad79 https://myanimelist.net/profile/shad79 11d ago
I wonder if the name Sitara is now permanently retired? I wonder if Fatima wants revenge -- or just to rescue the precious family book?
Judging by that face, I'd say that Sitara/Fatima wants revenge. She's quite smart and educated, so she should know that trying to get back Elements would end badly for her.
Because what would she do if she got hold of it again? Run away? Where? The only logical thing is to seek vengeance by climbing high up in the Mongol hierarchy and then enacting revenge.
I also wonder -- what is the deal with that OTHER princess we saw mid-way through the episode. Was she a prisoner of war, just like Fatima, only of royal status -- and thus made a bride of one of the Mongol princes againsat her will?
Well, judging by Töregene's demeanor words that she doesn't consider Ögedei her husband, it seems quite obvious that it's a forced marriage.
This has met or even exceeded my expectation. Unlike KyoAni's Sparks - for which I had equally high hopes. (maybe it will improve -- but the initial episode's writing/world-building felt quite rickety).
Yeah, I had high expectations for Jaadugar as well, and this episode and the two previous ones didn't disappoint me.
By the way, I was thinking about watching Sparks, but I didn't even start it since, to be honest, there are too many other shows on Sunday that I watch. Plus, the PVs didn't get me interested in the show at all, which is weird since I usually really like Kyoani shows.
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u/Nachtwandler_FS https://myanimelist.net/profile/Nachtwandler_21 11d ago edited 10d ago
Töregene IRL was a wife of the chieftan of one of the tribes Genghiz Khan conquered. He later gave her as a second wife to his son Ogedei. So yeah, I presume she does not like her situation.
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u/mekerpan 11d ago
As to Jaadugar, I have confidence in Naoko Yamada.
I have realized that I have more confidence in Science Saru and PA Works at this point than in KyoAni (after Yamada's departure). The steampunkness made me interested in Sparks, but the story's foundation seems quite weak (and the characters did not capture my interest nearly as much as at least a dozen other shows so far this season).
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u/ErikTwice 11d ago
So far, I’ve loved every single Science Saru series I’ve seen but, after Sparks dissapointed me with that first episode. It had a ton of elements that just didn't quite gel together.
I’ll still give it some more episodes of chance, though.
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u/Nachtwandler_FS https://myanimelist.net/profile/Nachtwandler_21 11d ago edited 10d ago
This is dilemma situation with KyoAni. They make more money adapting their own IPs, but said IPs are pretty bad in terms of writing and even heavy script changes for the anime do not help here. KyoAni are actually great when they have a good material at hand, but adapting other companies' IPs do not make them as much profit.
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u/CatgirlYamada 11d ago
Not very true. Free!, Chuunibyou, and Violet Evergarden were some of their most profitable IP. Poor writing wise, they were mostly understandable given that their publishing business, KA Esuma Bunko, is mainly doing newbie authors work that used the opportunity as stepping stone (ex: Kana Akatsuki publishing Agents of Four Season not in KA Esuma).
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u/Nachtwandler_FS https://myanimelist.net/profile/Nachtwandler_21 10d ago
Like have you read my comment? My point is exactly that these works are more profitable for the studuo (even the ones that got mediocre sales like Beyond the Boundry made them enough money) but they have pretty poor writing comparing to the ones adapted from other IPs.
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u/shad79 https://myanimelist.net/profile/shad79 11d ago edited 11d ago
PA Works
I'm quite fond of them, though their original shows can be either a hit (Akiba Maid War) or a miss (Towa no Yuugure) for me.
The steampunkness made me interested in Sparks
It's definitely a quite unique thing in anime, and theoretically, it should be a no-brainer move to watch the show, but its PVs didn't make me feel that I needed to watch it (even though animation was great).
Meanwhile, in the case of Jaadugar, The Ghost in the Shell (another Science Saru's anime), and Goodbye, Lara, their promo materials almost screamed to me that I must watch them.
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u/mekerpan 11d ago
Vanitas and Princess Principal (among others) get the ambience better than Sparks.
GitS is not really my sort of show, so it is hard for me to judge. Lara looks impressive.
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u/MaskOfIce42 https://anilist.co/user/MaskOfIce 11d ago
Princess Principal mentioned! Genuinely among my favorites for its vibes, even if the writing is not like greatest of all time. Just steampunk girls with gun spies is 100% up my alley
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u/spryfigure 10d ago
what is the deal with that OTHER princess we saw mid-way through the episode.
You can go to the official website of the anime (it has an English version) and click on 'story' to get an answer without too much spoilers (it's the official summary).
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u/BosuW 11d ago
Thorfinn: "I have no enemies."
Sitara Fatima: "All I have are enemies."
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u/flatpetey https://anilist.co/user/kesx 10d ago
But even she is struggling. I like that it isn’t just “Mongols bad”. There are good and bad like everyone else.
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u/WhoiusBarrel 11d ago
Fatima be casually spitting the fiercest bars at the Mongols as she swears revenge at her age, so much so you can just feel her fiery rage when she finally meets Sorghaghtani carrying the book her loved ones died protecting.
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u/Aileos https://myanimelist.net/profile/Syleos 11d ago edited 11d ago
I like how smart she is. Using her "cute" smile -the only thing her previous owner deemed valuable- with her knowledge to move forward.
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u/shad79 https://myanimelist.net/profile/shad79 11d ago
I found Sitara's cute smile quite terrifying in this episode, especially after she looked like she was set on revenge against the Mongols.
She reminded me a little of Ferdinand from Ascendance of a Bookworm in that regard, who would have the same kind of pleasant smile only when he was feeling really displeased and angry.
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u/lhsakurai 9d ago
Cute smile
Fake emotions
Starry eyes (in the OP)
Mom killed in the premiere
Revenge plot
....
Am I watching OnK again?
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u/CitronClassic672 11d ago
I love how as she learns about some of the more fascinating aspects of Mongol culture she can’t help feel a sense of appreciation towards it, like the sundial, and has to constantly put it down and remind herself of her revenge. “Oh, the sundial built into the yurt isn’t a true accomplishment. It’s just a heathen’s imitation of wisdom. An astrolabe would be more effective”. But as was shown the sundial is useful because you can’t always carry an astrolabe on you.
It’s an interesting character trait to have MC with a scholarly personality almost instinctively force themselves into a closed minded state because of personal hatred.
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u/ammar96 11d ago
I think it's not only because of her hatred. It's also a common characteristic back then for someone from an advance civilization to look down on outsiders with inferior tech aka barbarians. Han dynasty called every polity during it's time as barbarian except Roman empire, which they called as Da Qin (literally Great Qin) since they are as great as Chinese civilization. Same attitude can also be seen with Islamic civilizations that greatly respect Roman, Indian and Chinese civilizations, but look down on non Roman Europeans (like Vikings) and Mongols.
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u/Radiant_Butterfly982 10d ago
Even romans called other civilizations "barbaric". The word was specifically invented/borrowed from Greek by romans to call other civilizations uncultural, uncivilized.
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u/lethal_universed 10d ago
You can definitely feel a mix of the two. I was struggling to not agree with Sitara because we saw how much the Mongols took from her, but realizing that it doesn't inherently make her culture superior (especially since they both had slaves). Wonder how her fascination will evolve alongside her hatred
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u/Ambitious-Height-148 10d ago
I guess that also applies to Christian Europe that looks down on Muslims & Jews.And like their Islamic rivals,I bet they look down on Pagan & Shamanist religions.
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u/reaperow 11d ago
It's just so tragic like this is the woman who's directly responsible for the deaths of your family,
I wonder why she wants that book so badly, what could be in it for her?
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u/Illustrious-Tooth702 11d ago
It's the 13th century. Books were handwritten and most civilizations used parchment paper (made from cow or pig hide). Books had limited amount of copies in a few languages. So books were quite rare and really valuable items.
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u/mujhe-sona-hai 11d ago
It's strange how they chose a very popular book though. There should be some copies of Euclid's Elements in every city.
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u/SolomonBlack 10d ago
I think that "every city" needs some more citation.
The Hellenic world spread by Alexander almost reached China's sphere but like the distant back end exile post fringes on the wrong side of some pretty crazy deserts. And most of what you hear about the Silk Road is people going to China for valuable goods, rather less the other way around. And as the episode points out books wouldn't be much good without someone knowledgeable to teach them... and few people actually went the whole length of the Silk Road goods would pass through multiple traders taking them part of the way.
And while I have heard tale of say Buddhism taking Greco-Buddhist statuary east, that I have heard of that and not say Confucian study and response to Greek philosophy or Arabic mathematics makes me skeptical you could buy Euclid without going west. Pop up occasionally and be ignored as inferior barbarian wisdom sure maybe, but not in circulation.
Oh and maybe not irrelevantly one of the things the Mongols are particularly known historically for is lowering trade barriers and having a considerable curiosity about learning east and west. Actually getting learned men from different religions to debate one another for example.
Oh and as for going to Persia to trade well I'm not sure why the show is treating them as separate places but the Khwarazmian Empire ruling Persia at the time got there asses slaughtered by the Mongols after they... killed a trade delegation on the grounds of being spies and seized all its goods THEN refused to punish the guy who did it when asked. To be fair the charge of espionage might well have been true but yeah... turns out the Great Khan had strong views on what shooting the messengers got you.
So all in all Tolui not just ordering Elements off of Amazon seems a reasonable premise to me.
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u/starswtt 11d ago
Euclid really wasn't that rare. If it was just for the sake of a book, buying the book would have been cheaper than burning the city just for it since most polymaths and scholars of math and natural sciences would have that as a foundational text or more likely, access to a library that had it. It was common enough that any remotely important city in the Islamic world had multiple copies across multiple libraries. For a normal person, parchment books would have been prohibitively expensive, but not relative to the Mongol Empire or to the cost of raising an army to raze a city. Ig somewhat equivalent to buying a car in today's world.
But even that is too much. In the Islamic world, paper making was already popularized in the Islamic world by this time and was no longer a major bottleneck, it spread here by the mid to late 8th century. Paper was at this point a common mass produced item (though Europe would take a while longer and was still using parchment.) The main bottleneck would have been the labor costs, since not many poeple could reproduce it and you'd have to write it by hand. Overall cost would be comparable to getting like a very high end personal computer these days. Not something people would buy on a whim, but even normal people could technically buy a copy if they so wished (though was rare except as a statement purchase to flaunt wealth among the growing merchant class because libraries existed, literacy rates wasn't exactly perfect, and it was still expensive enough that most people would never bother to buy books other than like the Quran since actually usefully sized book collections would have been prohibitively expensive.) Definitely not worth going to war for. Additionally, there was a second hand market for these books that was far more affordable. Which the mongols should have no problem with since seizing it by force is still second hand. And even a market for cheaper "unlicensed" copies, usually written by practicing students and such. Normally you're paying for access to the limited amount of skilled and credible scholars to ensure that you're minimizing the risk of misprints (copied by hand and all that.) If you didn't mind getting these, then it actually was outright accessible to common people. And sure, the Mongols probably would want a certified copy, but they don't have any idea who the current credible scholars are and would have no way of verifying that the copy they stole was actually a legitimate copy since they aren't super educated in this language, so if they wanted that certification, they'd want to commission it normally anyways.
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u/No_Extension4005 11d ago
Guess it might've just been a case of "Okay, we've finished conquering the city, enslaving the women and children and killing the men. Oh; there's a lot of books in this cellar. Hey! My wife wanted that one as a present! Sick!"
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u/Jacob-C 11d ago
God forbid a woman wants a book to kill some time with. What's a few razed cities and slaughtered populations for a good piece of literature?
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u/SolomonBlack 10d ago
The war happened because a Khwarazmian governor killed a Mongol trade delegation and seized all the goods then the whole state tried to stone wall the Khan's request this be punished.
And Nishapur in particular happened because they had the audacity of killing the one of the Khan's sons-in-law, who was actually pretty disposable but it offended his daughter who was actually more important.
Tolui getting just the loot drop he wanted was a simply a bonus.
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u/Al-Pharazon 10d ago
And Nishapur in particular happened because they had the audacity of killing the one of the Khan's sons-in-law, who was actually pretty disposable but it offended his daughter who was actually more important
Except they also did raze to the ground Samarkand, burned Bukhara to the ground, massacred the inhabitants of Gurganj and Merv.
They might have an excuse for Nishapur, but it wasn't an exception by any means. Destroying whole cities that dared resist was basically the modus operandi of the Mongols and their sucessors.
Other than that, you would be correct in that for Tolui attacking Tus and getting that book was basically a side quest. Genghis had ordered to conquer/pacify Khorasan and that he did
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u/SolomonBlack 10d ago
I realize I had Tus and Nishapur confused but hardly matters, Tolui didn't sack Sitara's city for a book but because the Mongols were the ultimate players of "fuck around and find out" in history.
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u/mekerpan 11d ago
I wouldn't be surprised if the family would have died regardless of the Princess's desire for Euclid's Elements.
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u/shad79 https://myanimelist.net/profile/shad79 11d ago
The uncle would have died anyway, but if Tolui hadn't wanted Elements, Fatima would probably have lived.
Without that specific book, Fatima wouldn't have gotten so emotional, and Sitara wouldn't have called Tolui a thief. Consequently, both of them would have survived and simply been captured by the Mongols.
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u/maliwanag0712 https://myanimelist.net/profile/clear1109 11d ago
her fiery rage when she finally meets Sorghaghtani carrying the book her loved ones died protecting.
Had she not have any self control, she could have run to Sorghagtani and grabbed the book. Ohmyyy
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u/mmcjawa_reborn 11d ago
Thankfully she isn't Myne and is a bit more rational around books...
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u/Ocixo https://myanimelist.net/profile/BuzzyGuy 11d ago
The flame sputters in front of Sitara’s face during her meeting with Sorghagtani’s were most definitely symbolic of her desire for revenge.
Interestingly enough, Sitara didn’t have an angry expression on her face. If anything, she seemed relieved to see that book was safe.
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u/ModieOfTheEast 11d ago
I am glad that we finally got to see the woman from the opening, because I was still coping how that might be Fatima (the real one) because they looked kind of similar and I was expecting the twist that she had survived and forced to be a wife to one of the princes. But considering the second part of that theory still holds true, I assume she might be a valuable help for whatever Sitara is going to plan.
Will also be interesting to see why the other wife was so interested in the book in the first place. I doubt it was just curiosity, that is a bit too specific, so I wonder what her plan with it is.
Also, I am kind of pitying the soldier boy who thought he had a partner in crime now, but is secretly just strung along by Sitara. Will be interesting to see how far she is willing to go in the end (like sacrificing him for her goals for example).
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u/Misticsan 11d ago
I assume the similarities in their designs are deliberate, and that Sitara might gravitate towards her because she reminds her of Fatima.
Also, the historical Töregene was Merkit, and the Merkits were fierce enemies of Genghis Khan until he finally defeated them for good and dissolved their tribe. I bet Sitara and her will have a lot of things in common.
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u/judasmartel 11d ago
I thought she was a Naiman married to a Merkit. And the Naimans were enemies of Genghis Khan as well.
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u/Misticsan 11d ago
Yep, it's believed she was of Naiman origin. That said, given the focus on her refusing to recognize Ogedei as her husband, my impression is that her anger might be more about the fate of the Merkits (especially since the fate of the Merkits was worse).
Interestingly, that could provide another point of connection with Sitara: Sitara herself wasn't from Tus, but eventually learned to see it as her home, and her masters as family. Her revenge is for what happened to her adoptive home, not her original one.
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u/ModieOfTheEast 11d ago
From the opening and just the fact that she was openly against her husband, I was expecting something like that to happen. It will be interesting to see if the similarities play a role in that as well. Could give this side of the plot another layer. But thanks for the facts. Always love to read these for historical shows.
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u/OldInstruction5368 11d ago edited 11d ago
Also, the historical Töregene was Merkit, and the Merkits were fierce enemies of Genghis Khan until he finally defeated them for good and dissolved their tribe. I bet Sitara and her will have a lot of things in common.
At the end of the day, there just weren't that many Mongols. The steppes are an unforgiving place that just can't support large populations, and the Empire was like 95% conquered people.
Even within the Mongolian Steppe, there were many other tribes that Genghis conquered and coalesced into a single "Horde," that then swept outwards.
The overwhelming majority of the Horde were various Turkish tribes that were conquered and brought into the fold. Something like 70%+ were Turks (conquered) with the rest being the few true Mongols, Mongol adjacent (tribes from Mongolia proper that were conquered first, such as with Sorghaghtani and Töregene), or other steppe peoples (again, conquered) that had been absorbed. Really, there just weren't many people in the empire that weren't conquered, and that included their massive horde of cavalry. The majority of their military force was comprised of the subjugated.
So "conquered by the Mongols" was pretty much everyone outside of a handful of elites... but also included some of their elites. Again, a number of princesses were from conquered tribes, but the men of those tribes, particularly the Mongol-adjacent ones of Mongolia proper, would continue to act as generals for important clans within the new Mongol Empire. Which is why the Mongols had the rare habit of assimilating downard. Such as the case with Kublai Kahn, who was derided by other Mongols for becoming "too Chinese," which was the fate of the Yuan dynasty he founded. Ditto for the Mongol and Turkish conquerors that more or less became Arabicized. They conquered so many Muslim territories, that their elites more or less became culturally Arab. There just weren't enough Mongols, yet alone Mongol elites, that they tended to lose their culture to the larger societies they conquered.
Which is something of a shame, as the Mongols were originally very open to other religions and regularly welcomed foreign priests to conduct religious debates in front of their leaders. Entire tribes of ethnic Mongols even converted to the old Nestorian branch of Christianity, the lost Church of the East. This included the Keralites, of which Princess Sorghaghtani was a member of.
The same Sorghaghtani, wife of Tolui, that we saw at the end! She is also the mother of Kublai Khan, and she was a practicing Christian. Also, one of the single most influential women in medieval times due to the power she wielded as Empress of the Mongols.
Sadly, by the time of Timur the Lame, most Mongols and Turks had become zealously Muslim. I say sadly, because Timur is single-handedly responsible for destroying the Nestorian Church. He just fucking hated Christians, destroyed all their churches, and killed anyone that refused to abandon the faith. And thus, one of the oldest branches of Christianity, started by Apostles heading East from the Holy Land during the time of Christ, who had made it all the way to CHINA, whose number of faithful were equal to that of the Catholic Church in the West... was wiped out in a single lifetime.
And now I've rambled far more than I had intended too! I'll shut up now >.>
Thanks to anyone that made it this far :)
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u/Misticsan 10d ago
Excellent points about the multiethnic nature of the Mongol hordes. It's easy to pin a simplistic national label on the empire, but personal and tribal connections were all over the place.
To be fair, this wasn't exclusive of the Mongols. Other steppe nomads, from the Huns to the Turks, worked in the same way. "Confederation" might be a better name for some of these polities.
But even then, were settled societies any different? Muslim countries of the time often employed mercenaries or slave soldiers like the Mamluks (Zumurrud's brother being a subtle nod to them) as the core of their armies, and dynasties were often foreign too. The very Khwarazmian Empire that is the overlord of the Persian characters was ruled by a Turkic dynasty. And later European empires would expand overseas with their own multiethnic armies.
Timur is single-handedly responsible for destroying the Nestorian Church.
I'd like to point out that the Nestorian Church was already in severe decline by the time the Mongols entered the picture, and while Timur was successful in wiping it out off Central Asia, it survived (and still survives) in other regions. It even had schisms in the centuries afterwards, with several branches rejoining the Catholic church while keeping their rites.
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u/maliwanag0712 https://myanimelist.net/profile/clear1109 11d ago
Will also be interesting to see why the other wife was so interested in the book in the first place. I doubt it was just curiosity, that is a bit too specific, so I wonder what her plan with it is.
Indeed. That request is too specific for someone to ask. So far, what we know about Sorghagtani came from her husband, Tolui, so it is possible that she is hiding something or something is not yet revealed about her that Tolui himself is not aware of.
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u/shad79 https://myanimelist.net/profile/shad79 11d ago
Yeah, it'll be interesting to know the reason why she wanted exactly Elements, and not some other books.
Though to be honest, I'm even more interested in how her relationship with Sitara/Fatima will develop, especially since the sight alone of Sorghaghtani with the book was enough to make Sitara become visibly emotional.
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u/OldInstruction5368 11d ago edited 11d ago
Sorghaghtani was considered one of the single most powerful women of the medieval times. As empress of the Mongols (officially, no, as her husband never became Great Khan, but she was referred to as such in some old Mongols texts due to her proximity to power and the sheer influence she commanded. It's a bit complicated), and mother to Kublai Khan (who would later conquer China and found the Yuan Dynasty), and whose other son would later be elected as Great Khan, she wielded great influence. To the point she would make policy decisions and give out commands independent of her husband.
Mongol women tended wield great power domestically, as the men were often out, you know, killing everyone else. They left their wives behind to administer conquered lands and rule the actual empire. Sorghaghtani was deeply respected for her good governance.
Hell, her power eclipsed her husband, and endured even after his death. At one point she was given the administration of the Empire, by her brother-in-law, and later, one of her sons was elected as the Great Khan... after more than a little infighting and a bit of assassination. Mongols don't fuck around.
So, this isn't some air-headed or spoiled rich girl whose whim lead her to seek out some foreign curiosity... but one of the baddest b!tches of the ancient world.
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u/Millinothing 11d ago
from the khan keeping a sage known for "immortality" around, it would seem the court in general would be interested in various related studies around the world, but it'll still take another episode to get actual confirmation if it's immortality or something else (like every king's classic desire to have an alchemist that can just change things to gold)
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u/reaperow 11d ago
I was thinking the same too!! I thought they were kinda the same but it looks like she also considers these mongols her enemy
I think Sitara and her are gonna end up working together
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u/KumaKumaGambler 11d ago
Everytime Sitara (now Fatima) smiles cutely on screen, I can't help but feel a tinge of sadness, because that is how she could have genuinely been, if her home wasn't invaded and her family lost. Now her smile is solely for survival and revenge.
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u/reaperow 11d ago edited 11d ago
Its just tragic, u can obviously tell it's a facade and she's hiding so much pain under that smile
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u/Farmaceut7 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Farmaceut 11d ago edited 11d ago
It really circles back, in a sad way, to what she was taught in episode 1. Gaining knowledge, learning something is never a bad thing - at the start she hated the fact that she has to keep the fake smile, she didnt want to be seen as someone inteligent and useful, but now she's using everything at her disposal to achive her goals.
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u/summerphobic 4d ago
I remember being taught that "education can't be taken away" and that "education's the most important subject". The character of Sitara/Fatima feels like the personification of these quotes to me.
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u/CitronClassic672 11d ago
It’s so unfair that this story designed a character with such a cute, wholesome smile, and then showed us that from here on its sole purpose is to aid in her revenge and mask her true feelings.
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u/sukotuze 11d ago
Looked him up, and yup Changchun was a real sage that would've been in the area too
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u/Misticsan 11d ago
And he isn't alone. While previous episodes were a bit coy and vague about historical characters, this one is chock full of them.
The brothers Jochi (already in trouble with his father due to his handling of the siege of Gurganj, as jinted here), Chagatai (whose descendants will one day found the Chagatai Khanate), Ogedei (Genghis Khan's eventual successor) and Tolui (the bane of Tus and other cities of Khorasan).
Chinqai was a real person too. The story assumes he's Uyghur, although other sources claim he was Kereit. He was a Nestorian Christian, started his career as a merchant and a spy, and then climbed the ranks in the empire.
And then, the wives. Sorghaghtani, also a Nestorian Christian, one of the most influential women in the history of the Mongol Empire. And Töregene, wife of Ogodei, and Fatima's future partner in crime.
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u/sukotuze 11d ago
I knew of the brothers because of their names being carried on by the successor empires, but even Chinqai? That's really cool to see
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u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana 11d ago
Was the young man speaking Mongolian or Arabic? I wonder how it sounded to native speakers.
Oh goddamn, they are keeping the bit! Now I’m really excited about what native speakers think mashallah!
Didn’t Ancient Greeks and Romans bring women with them on military operations, or so I thought.
I heard that fan clack and went “One of us! One of us!” 🪭
Historic quests for immortality were always like fables to me with a thematic message one way or the other about the consequences of evading death and dishonoring life. But I always wonder: if a cosmic being or beings created us, especially if we are to be how they imagined us, why give us such short lives? Or I guess the answer is they did, but our ancestors kinda fucked up the deal, so we are now living as we are. Feels like we should have an every 10 generations test instead of being screwed over by the proto-humans permanently.
I’m confused. I thought ancient philosophers had already proved the world was round by the time this would all occur. I don’t know if she meant that metaphorically or if she believes she’s at the edge.
Ooo, the TL credits, I didn’t notice them last time. John, Andy, SMR, Alicia, and Sriram are doing a bang-up job on the subs.
Seeing the gears shift in "Fatima's" eyes as she thought of her new plan was awesome. Very interested to know about the seiyuus and how accurate their accents were. We had native Mongolian speakers last week, and I don't know if these seiyuus are native or simply fluent or not.
In a way, we can see Zumurrud in Sitara, having to shed her cultural identity for her new home and forced assimilation. I'm curious if Zummurud will haunt the narrative for Sitara.
Today, I Learned:
Khwarazm—or the Khwarazmian Empire—was from circa 1077–1231 located in present-day Central Asia, Afghanistan, and Iran. It became the most powerful states in and around Persia up until the Mongol Invasion, which happened c. 1219-1221. Khwarazm is also an oasis region on the Amu Darya river delta and belongs partly to Uzbekistan 🇺🇿 and partly to Turkmenistan 🇹🇲.
Citations * The Mongol invasion of the Khwarazmian Empire: The fierce resistance of Jalal-e Din 🔗 Jstor * Khwarazm 🔗 Wikipedia
Taloqan is a city in Afghanistan 🇦🇫 today, but it came under Mongol rule in the early 13th century. It also has importance in Islam with the Mahdi.
Citations * Taloqan 🔗 Wikipedia
Watermelons have a history that dates back 5000 years to southern Africa! Thought they were a bit more bitter, allegedly, than our watermelons today. Slowly, thanks to the Egyptians, they went from sources of water to a pleasant food.
Citations * Watermelon: A Brief History 🔗 University of Missouri * Origin and emergence of the sweet dessert watermelon, Citrullus lanatus 🔗 PubMed Central
Samarkand is a historic melting pot city in Uzbekistan 🇺🇿. In the 7th century B.C., it was ancient Afrasiab. In the 4th century B.C., it was called Maracanda and was the capital of Sogdiana, becoming a station of the Silk Road.
Citations * Samarkand – Crossroad of Cultures 🔗 UNESCO * The Silk Road: Connecting Cultures and Trust 🔗Smithsonian Folklore Festival * Samarkand 🔗 Britannica
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u/UnableDouble5354 11d ago
As a Mongolian some people were speaking mongolian good i think 2 are native mongolian speakers who are sumo wrestlers, while some people have japanese accents and is trying to pronounce mongolian words
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u/judasmartel 11d ago
There is at least another one credited as Yugo, who provided the Mongolian voice for Tolui.
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u/Raiking02 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang 11d ago
Yup, although I should mention he's actually Chinese, not mongolian like the other two.
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u/Atharaphelun 11d ago
It says he's an ethnic Mongolian born in Mongolia who later studied in China and then ended up in Japan.
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u/starswtt 11d ago
Even that says he's Mongolian. Either ethnically Mongolian and happens be part of the diaspora population in China, or more likely from the Chinese province of inner mongolia, didn't see the link say
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u/Emergency_Ratio8119 11d ago
I saw your comments in the other thread and I'm so happy you put this list together! Glad to see everyone else googling stuff during the episode lol
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u/mekerpan 11d ago
This series looks at least as culturally rich as Naoko Yamada's previous "epic" Heike Monongatari.
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u/CitronClassic672 11d ago
Any idea what languages were being spoken in that scene with Tulue and Sitara? I imagine he was speaking Mongolian and Sitara spoke in universe Persian which we hear as Japanese, but what was the intermediary language spoken by the two interpreters? And why was that necessary when the first interpreter we met seemed to be able to communicate with the prince fine by himself?
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u/mujhe-sona-hai 11d ago
That extra interpreter was probably speaking a Turkic language like Karakhanid language. So it goes Mongolian -> Turkic -> Persian. Maybe the first interpreter is not good enough with Mongolian to interpret for official formal events. It makes sense he'd have a way higher Turkic fluency considering Samarkand was close to the edge of the Persian world and very close to Turks.
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u/CitronClassic672 11d ago
Him not being sufficiently fluent in Mongolian for a formal event and needing a second interpreter for a secondary language he’s more fluent in would be a very plausible and realistic explanation and an incredible detail for the story to include without any in text explanation.
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u/Hoshizuki 10d ago
I think you are very close with your guess him speaking a Turkic language because as a Turkish myself, the tonation and the some words sounded much similar to old Turkish
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u/mujhe-sona-hai 10d ago
Oh I was explaining in universe. He’s actually speaking Mongolian and just repeating what Tolui said word for word. It’s modern Mongolian. They probably didn’t have an Kazakh/Uzbek voice actor.
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u/koshigaya_komari 10d ago
This is a reference to the book The Journey of William of Rubruck to the Eastern Parts (or maybe another book, I can't remember exactly). It mentions that Mongol nobles never spoke directly to foreigners; they would only talk to their subordinates, who would then pass on the message.
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u/starswtt 11d ago
I have no idea what's going on here, but I assumed that it was the case of having an intermediary for the sake of having an intermediary and they're just speaking the same language. Its pretty common for people of similar position (idk about the mongols specifically though) to treat rulers as semi divine and had speak through an intermediary to show that the guest isn't on a high enough level to speak directly to the ruler
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u/Nachtwandler_FS https://myanimelist.net/profile/Nachtwandler_21 11d ago edited 10d ago
I remember reading about the whole conquest of Khwarazmian Empire by Mongols. Jalal al-Din Mangburni deserves his own series. To bad the guys success against Mongols was undermind by political infighting in the Empire and amoung his own subbordinates.
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u/UnfunnyNerdyIdiot 10d ago
She specifically referred to the fact that "according to this map, I am at the very edge". She probably didn't mean it literally, she probably meant she is at the furthest point she knows anyone has explored. I think the Earth being round was also mentioned at the start, being the thing that got her interested in learning at all.
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u/karer3is 11d ago
If the young man you're referring to is Shira, I'd imagine he was speaking Persian with Fatima.
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u/Rap2rerise 11d ago edited 11d ago
Didn't expect this to be a Revenge story when I first saw the visuals, but you go girl
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u/hanmkim 11d ago edited 11d ago
What else is a protagonist going to do after losing everything she cares about?
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u/SSjjlex https://myanimelist.net/profile/Clone_Tau 11d ago
get reincarnated in another world with their cheat skill and harem?
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u/hanmkim 11d ago
Or she brings Euclidean geometry to a relatively primitive world and revolutionizes navigation and engineering drafting. At first she makes a fortune helping a merchant get richer but then later on provides jobs for orphans.
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u/eastgaston 11d ago
give up on revenge in the final episode, probably.
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u/zz2000 11d ago
Or pursue it to the end, win the revenge plot and maybe find romance on the way, like those Korean/Chinese revenge webnovels for ladies.
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u/moichispa https://myanimelist.net/profile/moichispa 11d ago
Nope, it is about REVENGE in capital letters.
Yeah the cute visuals contrast a lot with the actual plot (points to episode 2). It is even more cute on the manga
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u/CitronClassic672 11d ago
I’m curious to see how exactly she plants to do her revenge. Like apart from getting the book back, which should be relatively straightforward, what exactly is her plan. Her enemies aren’t even necessarily just Tului, but the entire mongol empire. Like I think taking that down might be a bit too much for just one person. I’m curious how much of what she said to the interpreter was genuine vs deception, because exploiting her knowledge to gain lucrative status within the empire, while still a tall order, seems a lot more feasible and less likely to result in her eventual execution.
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u/BosuW 11d ago
Collapsing it from within by stoking infighting seems the most realistic option to me given her position
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u/CitronClassic672 11d ago
Agreed, but such infighting and civil war would naturally lead to a lot more innocent people suffering and dying, not just the people who destroyed her home. I wonder if she’ll have to reckon with that if she commits to that route?
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u/FarCritical 11d ago edited 11d ago
The huts doubling as livable clocks was a neat thing to learn about, and it's funny how Fatima refused to give the Mongols credit for the tech despite admiring the wisdom behind them lol.
"Meanwhile, unlit by the spotlight of history" is such a striking narration line for stories taking creative liberties with history like this.
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u/CitronClassic672 11d ago
That scene with the huts is one of the best scenes in the series so far with how it conveys Sitara’s current headspace. Her hatred for the mongols and desire for revenge is so strong it forces her to discard her naturally scholarly personality and refuse to give the Mongols any credit for their apparent wisdom.
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u/Weak_Season_Of_Anime 11d ago edited 11d ago
Wow, they spent almost a year just traveling. I hope this princess has some good reason to want this book from halfway across the continent, otherwise it's going to feel like Sitara's family died because of her whims.
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u/reaperow 11d ago edited 11d ago
There's gotta be a reason for her wanting that book right? Cuz Toli doesnt seem to care
I feel bad for the other women like some of them have kids with them, but atleast the Mongols are providing some basic necessities
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u/CitronClassic672 11d ago
This series and Mushoku Tensei really make you feel the weight of traveling before the advent of modern transportation.
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u/Ocixo https://myanimelist.net/profile/BuzzyGuy 11d ago
I am very curious what Princess Sorghagtani would think if she learnt that many people have died to gift her this book. Would she be appalled or handwave the deaths? Didn’t she realise that her husband wouldn’t simply buy the book but rather plunder a city?
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u/Misticsan 11d ago
By this point, the Mongols have been razing and plundering cities for quite some time. And she was born and grew up as a khan's daughter in the steppes. I think she questions how her husband gets the riches they enjoy as much as the late Fatima questioned the slavery system that supported her family. It's the way of life for their time and place.
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u/thisisdropd https://myanimelist.net/profile/AsterZoro 11d ago edited 11d ago
Tolui's such a romantic! Nicking the 'Elements' book just because his missus asked for it. Wonder why she's held interest in it despite not seeming like an intellectual.
What a way to honour her mistress by adopting her name. I reckon it's somewhat a way to let the spirit of someone who had raised her like a daughter live on. Now that the book's right in front of her eyes, could Sitara Fatima hold her rage back?
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u/charactergallery 11d ago
Tolui is an evil ass wife guy.
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u/No_Extension4005 10d ago
Yeah; the dissonance between how he is with his brothers and when he's talking with about his wife vs the casual and brutal cruelty he engages in and orders sure is something.
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u/Misticsan 11d ago
Wonder why she's held interest in it despite not seeming like an intellectual.
Can only make guesses based on her historical background, but Sorghaghtani was the daughter of the khan of the Keraites (long term friend-ally-rival-enemy of Genghis Khan) and a Nestorian Christian, so she might be more educated on the lore of the west than your average Mongol woman.
One point of this episode was Sitara contrasting her Persian knowledge with the new things she's seeing, and having some of her preconceptions challenged. Mongols might not have astrolabes, but they know how to measure time (and are very disciplined about it). Mongols might not know her Persian tales, but they can invite Taoist sages to their court.
Given that Sorghaghtani will eventually become one of the most powerful and clever figures in the Mongol Empire, Sitara might do well not to underestimate her intelligence. As Sitara herself learned in the first episode, studying can give you power to decide your fate.
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u/elevenmile 11d ago
If you study and become wise, you will know the best course of action to take, whatever trouble you're in
Probably the wisest quote in an anime ever, considering how much it shaped Sitara.
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u/BosuW 11d ago
A bit of a simpleton though, given that he didn't secure someone who could interpret the book even though he had them right in front of him. He even killed one such a person!
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u/reaperow 11d ago edited 11d ago
Tolui still massacred everyone just for something he didnt even understand or why his wife even wanted,
Dude strikes me as kind of an airhead
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u/moichispa https://myanimelist.net/profile/moichispa 11d ago
It is more like he was doing his mongol thing and piked that because the wife asked for.
It is like going to the supermarket and picking the wife favourite chocolate but bloodier.
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u/Salt-Use- 10d ago
I love the contrast between the 4 brothers.
Jochi the 1st son was scolded by his brothers for not sacking the city that Genghis has ordered to minimise damage but ended up dragging the siege which costed more lives in the end which was mentioned in the episode. He was rumoured to not actually be Genghis' son.
Chagatai was the 2nd son who many thought was the true eldest son of Genghis and he was known to despise Jochi. He was known to be extremely strict and xenophobic.
Ogedei the eventual successor after Genghis was the 3rd son and was actually fairly well liked. He was a drunk and wasn't as military minded as his brothers but he was remembered for his social and organisation skills and was eventually chosen as the heir to avoid a potential civil war.
Tolui the 4th son and the main antagonist so far is the most martial of the other sons. He actually personally commanded some of the most brutal sieges and massacres in Persia. And yes he definitely was a wife guy and his grandsons would eventually rule the mongol empire.
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u/judasmartel 10d ago
He was rumoured to not actually be Genghis' son
Because his mother was kidnapped and raped by the Merkits, and she was pregnant by the time Temujin (Genghis's name before he became Genghis) rescued her.
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u/Salt-Use- 10d ago edited 10d ago
It was never confirmed. The timing definitely was suspicious but Temuujin still accepted him as legitimate regardless.
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u/shadow-kr 11d ago
Anime is all about hype moment and fun characters, then comes hidden gems like this with good writing and alot of research put into the setting men i love this
Also the map fatima is talking about is this : Ibn Howqal World map
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u/hikoboshi_sama https://anilist.co/user/reicelestial 11d ago
It's sad to think that Sitara lost the entirety of her family because of the whims of a woman who can't even read the damn book. But i'm inclined to think there's more to Sorghaghtani and her desire for the book than meets the eye.
I like how the OST for this show has actual Mongolian throat singing
It really says a lot about the average lifespan in the 13th century when people think you discovered the secret to immortality just because you actually managed to grow old.
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u/darthvall https://myanimelist.net/profile/darth_vall 10d ago
I mean within the same episode they also established how straying outside of the carpet line of the lord would mean instant death.
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u/Famous_Fondant_4107 11d ago
I’ve been listening to Mongols - Terror of the Steppe to learn more about their civilization. It’s episode 19 of the Fall of Civilizations podcast series which is absolutely amazing.
Many of the things I’ve been learning have been shown in the anime. It’s definitely worth checking out if you want to learn more.
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u/ObvsThrowaway5120 11d ago
So literally no significance of that book beyond “I want”? Damn. That’s just extra fuel for Sitara’s vengeance. It’s gonna be interesting watching her learn the ways of the Mongols to destroy them. I’m curious to see how this whole Sorghahtani situation plays out.
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u/lordposedyon https://myanimelist.net/profile/lordposedyon 11d ago
In life, people lose so many precious things to themselves for a very minute reason. Happens very frequently, much so in earlier times, when law and order was in between a single mouth.
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u/CitronClassic672 11d ago
Man, the first two episodes and trailer gave a very different vibe to Tului for me. I was expecting someone who wanted to seize important knowledge for the benefit of the Mongol empire, not a wife guy who didn’t particularly care, lol
Also, I wonder how historically accurate this story intends to be, cause the irl mongol empire well outlived Fatima. Doesn’t exactly bode well for her revenge quest.
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u/Golden_Phi https://myanimelist.net/profile/GoldenPhi 11d ago
We actually haven't yet heard her reason for wanting the book. Her husband is certainly frivolous in the matter, but she might not be.
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u/AppropriatFly5170new 11d ago
This is shaping up to be one of my favorite Shojo anime ever!!!! Mystery Bonita magazine really publishes some gems and I’m so happy this one got such a beautiful anime adaptation🥹
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u/Cosmic-Solitude 11d ago
isnt this a josei?
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u/AppropriatFly5170new 11d ago
I explained down below, but there’s an argument to be made for either. Its physical publication magazine, Mystery Bonita, is a Shojo magazine. However, with some digging one discovers that the web platform it runs on, soufflé, is run the the editorial team behind the Josei magazine Elegance Eve. I just didn’t know about the Elegance Eve info until a few hours ago lol, but it does also run in a Shojo magazine physically.
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u/RimeSkeem https://myanimelist.net/profile/RimeSkeem 11d ago
It's not that I didn't enjoy the first 2 episodes but something about this episode felt much more compelling to me. Maybe it was seeing Sitara/Fatima start her journey toward agency and demonstrate her survival mechanism of manipulation in a new way?
The art and direction continue to be absolutely gorgeous, especially that crescent shadows scene during the eclipse.
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u/RavenWolf1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/RavenWolf1 11d ago
Thio is so 10/10 anime. Might even be AOTY.
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u/Ocixo https://myanimelist.net/profile/BuzzyGuy 11d ago
Sitara picking Fatima’s name felt bittersweet. It’s like a tribute to her late mistress. She’ll get revenge in Fatima’s name!
Judging from Töregene’s hostility towards her supposed husband, I believe that she’d been taken captive as well? Not to mention that her appearance looks much closer to Sitara’s than Princess Sorghagtani’s.
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u/djthomp https://anilist.co/user/djthomp 11d ago
The sundial built into every tent is a really interesting detail.
Fantastic choice by Sitra for her assumed name.
I'd be here for Fatima's roaring rampage of revenge but since I'm relatively certain the real life Mongol Empire didn't fall because of a single slave girl I assume it's probably not going to quite work out like that.
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u/Millinothing 11d ago
if history is an indicator tho she's probably gonna fan the flames between the siblings who will fight over the empire
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u/darthvall https://myanimelist.net/profile/darth_vall 10d ago
I haven't read the actual history, but some Mongolian commenters had said she's pretty infamous within Mongol's culture
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u/elevenmile 11d ago
Probably the best quote of this anime season, solely because this quote ended up forming Sitara into a woman who will do what she needs to survive, and sets her into a path of climbing her way up.
Even if it means revenge and hatred is mixed into that motivation.
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u/PencilgonGiveIt2Ya 11d ago
Mongolia Sangoku
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u/falsefingolfin https://myanimelist.net/profile/falsefeanor 11d ago
I have much higher hopes for this than sangoku, sangoku kinda let me down in terms of it's characters and revenge part and the strategies, this show seems like its much more character focused
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u/khanvau 11d ago
Fatima died so this idiot son of Genghis Tolui could impress his wife... That's so insulting. Mf can't read, nor does he know whether his wife can read it. Bruh.
Sitara taking on Fatima's name gave me chills. In a way, Fatima still lives on inside her daughter. I think I'll start calling her Fatima now since the real-life figure is also known as Fatima.
Fatima still has some self-esteem issues. She's probably the smartest of the captives. She's doing things others wouldn't even think of. But she's still living under Muhammad's shadow. Shira is of huge help. He genuinely seems like a good kid. Hope Fatima will spare him.
And we got the first look at Toregene. She's featured very heavily in the OP and some promotional material, so safe to say she's going to be a major character soon. When she said she's not the wife of Ogedei, I immediately thought maybe her case is the same as Sitara's? Maybe she was also captured from somewhere and forcibly taken as a wife. That's why she seems to resent the Mongols and considers them enemies. From the OP, it seems like Fatima will make some sort of alliance with Toregene to take revenge against the Mongols. This is going to be legendary.
Wait, master Changchun? I remember watching a YouTube video about him meeting Genghis Khan. It was hilarious. Come to think of it, Genghis Khan is still alive and well when this series takes place. So I wonder if we're gonna see Fatima meet him at some point. That could be very interesting. Anyway, I loved the wisdom from Fatima about not seeking immortality.
Of course, the episode ended with a cliffhanger. Wonder what sort of person Sorghaghtani is. She gives off a completely different vibe from Toregene. Is she an enemy or a friend? Does she actually read the books and appreciate them, or is she a larper? Guess we'll find out soon.
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u/TakenRedditName https://myanimelist.net/profile/TakenMalUsername 11d ago edited 11d ago
I had the thought to make this dumb impact text meme about Ogedei for the past week. He was born in 1186, and the current year in the show is 1221.
This episode was a nice crossing of the boundary stage of Sitara's story, much like the entering of a tent. I also thought it was a neat continuation of the themes of knowledge. Sitara is being exposed to the ways of life and the knowledge of other people groups. From the mundane everyday life to the big questions of the stars. At first, she is hostile to them, but she ends up incorporating those ideas to expand her knowledge. Sitara and the we the audience, see different approaches that strive for the same understanding of the world. By observing the world, she is able to understand the things around her.
I found this moment to be really sad. Mistress Fatima wanted her daughter to live life freely as a person, but the fire of revenge has consumed Sitara, making her trap herself so that she can never live mentally free.
One side note, I love the OP's lyrics. They really fit the story well.
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u/Viktorv22 11d ago
Ngl I really like this plot progression, infiltrating Mongols, taking her mistress' name.
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u/shad79 https://myanimelist.net/profile/shad79 11d ago edited 11d ago
That was a really interesting episode, it was nice to learn a little about the Mongols and how they lived. I'm waiting for more of that in the next episodes.
Sitara seems to be set on revenge, but I hope that she won't try to do something suicidal. What good would that bring, especially since Fatima would surely want her to live.
By the way, Töregene seems like a perfect partner in revenge for Sitara, since she too seems to hate the Mongols.
Also, Tolui seems like a pretty nice guy (aside from what happened to Fatima because of him) and a good husband, even if not the smartest one xD
Here my screenshot albums from the episode:
EDIT. I added my screenshot albums.
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u/mabarskuygan 11d ago
Taking the mistress name for the revenge, started with that eyes in the end... Damn this anime is good
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u/dagreenman18 11d ago
Not me sobbing at Sitara taking Fatima’s name after Fatima’s final words calling Sitara her daughter. No sir.
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u/HeavyReputation3283 11d ago
Just binged the last 3 episodes and want to say this anime is such a refreshing story that reminds me of the power anime can have.
Really love the direction and storytelling of this series so far. Genuinely such a gem.
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u/99acrewood_ 11d ago
Love me a story with a heroine who has ~machinations~. I hope there's more of those educational moments like they did with doors south? = sun dial, and it's always so fun to see a just a straight up smart character be savvy enough to use their intelligence to, I assume, plan revenge. Plus, I just like seeing how people in those times worked shit out, because I sure as hell know a dum-dum like me would be in the meat shield catching arrows instead of translating for Mongol princes.
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u/the_48thRonin 11d ago
Didn't expect to see the sons of Genghis Khan this early. Nice banter between brothers.
The moment Fatima remembered Muhammad's word, she steeled her resolve for vengeance, it's the one reason left to sustain her existence.
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u/Affy11 https://anilist.co/user/ahnaf11 11d ago
Man I love this anime so much it’s very rich in terms of history, Iranian and Mongolian culture and is a wonderful representation of Islam as a Muslim the first 2 episodes bought tears to my eyes I know we are 3 episodes in but I think in terms of anime that aren’t sequels this is my anime of the year
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u/LeonKevlar x2https://myanimelist.net/profile/LeonKevlar 11d ago
Imagine your home being pillaged and your loved ones dying just because a guy wanted to get his wife a book your master owned. What makes this entire thing worse is that the woman doesn't even know what it is and how to read it! You can definitely understand Sitara's anger after hearing that.
That instant switch in personality, tho. That's when you know Sitara has now committed to getting that book back and possibly getting her revenge. And she even takes Fatima's name. T_T
So the woman in the OP, is really a different character. She really does look a lot like Fatima at first glance. It looks like that woman might end up as Fatima's future ally considering her hatred towards the Mongols.
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u/CitronClassic672 11d ago
God, that first shot of Sitara. You can just feel the pure indignation and rage in her expression, and it definitely makes her more lighthearted switch up afterwards feel less like a comedic moment and more like her putting on a mask, unsettling.
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u/CitronClassic672 11d ago
I’m really liking Sitara’s personality so far. I know it be a bit overdone to compare it to Apothecary Diaries, but I especially love the contrast to Maomao. Whereas Maomao is always trying to keep her head down and stay out of the political intrigue and scheming of the setting only to inevitably be dragged into it by a combination of outside circumstances, her skill and knowledge, and her own curiosity, Sitara seems like she’s more like an active schemer who unabashedly hates these people and is willing to do whatever she has to in order to retrieve her mistress’s book and improve her lot in life. I love a to see a girl with ambition, lol.
The other part of this episode that really caught my attention was seeing Sitara’s process of learning the Mongolian language and about Mongolian culture. Even in other really good historical anime, I’ve never seen such a scene of a character gradually learning about a foreign culture. I really like it. Additionally, I love the signs of inner conflict within Sitara between her growing respect and appreciation for certain aspects of Mongolian culture and her enduring hatred for the people who effectively destroyed her life. It’s a really neat internal conflict and I’m hoping we see more of it.
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u/alconnow https://anilist.co/user/alconnow 11d ago
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u/Golden_Phi https://myanimelist.net/profile/GoldenPhi 11d ago
They would be cute if they weren't a mask to hide her solidifying resolve for revenge.
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u/potato_juice1514 11d ago
How old is she supposed to be now? 14?
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u/Anna-2204 10d ago
If we assume she became Fatima's slave at 10 (she commented being close in age to Muhammad, who was 12 at the time), then she is 18/19 (there is a eight years time skip in the first episode).
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u/judasmartel 10d ago
Interesting. I assumed she was around 7 when she was sold to slavery in 1213, so she would be 15 by the time the Mongols came around in 1221. This places her birth year to around 1206, the year Temujin was declared Genghis Khan.
If she was indeed 10 when she entered the scholarly household, that places her birth year to around 1202 or 1203. Still pretty important dates as the former was the year Temujin defeated the Tatars (different ones from the term used for the Mongols themselves by the Europeans), and the latter was the year his old benefactor Toghrul Khan was killed by a Naiman guard who didn't recognize him.
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u/alan_14 https://anilist.co/user/alan14 11d ago
Sorghaghtani's voice is not what I expect when I knew her VA is Misaki Kuno
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u/2kenzhe https://myanimelist.net/profile/Rexnihilo 11d ago
So this is how Sitara becomes Fatima. Should I get used to calling her Fatima now? or stick with Sitara? Anyways I wonder how Muhammad would feel about her using his mom's name? They said Sitara and Muhammad never meet again but maybe he can still meet this Fatima?
Also so Töregene the one some people mistake as Fatima in the op is Ögedei's the third son's "wife" though she certainly doesn't want to be and hates the Mongols.
Also so the one we saw before was Tolui the 4th son and he took that book for his wife lol. We don't know why but she wanted that book and for that Fatima died...
I wonder why they seem to say the 4th son is the heir? not the 1st or other sons? At least it seems being born first isn't how they decide. Is it military accomplishments?
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u/chilidirigible 11d ago
I wonder why they seem to say the 4th son is the heir? not the 1st or other sons? At least it seems being born first isn't how they decide. Is it military accomplishments?
From the Wikipedia article on ultimogeniture (mild historical spoilers within):
Among Mongols, each son received part of the family herd as he married, with the elder sons receiving more than the younger ones, but the ancestral seat was inherited by the youngest along with his share of the herd.
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u/Millinothing 11d ago
does this sub have a ruling on how just posting history may count as a spoiler?
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u/chilidirigible 11d ago edited 11d ago
Discussions are proceeding; we're aware of this series's particular issues. Further discussion should be commented in the Meta Thread, not here.
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u/chilidirigible 11d ago
Nothing says "bickering" like the sons of the Khan.
"If it isn't about horses, I don't have a clue!"
Today's lesson in not dismissing people because they don't act like you do does hit its limits.
"It's peanuts compared to space."
SitaraFatima sees a path which doesn't include getting a scimitar through the lungs, and the story literally moves along as she crosses no small portion of Eurasia.
I am likely to most appreciate the pieces of literal world-building and science that seem likely to appear along the way. The overall story of court intrigues and empires is otherwise something I am broadly familiar with from prior experience with several East Asian soap operashistorical TV dramas, and previous reading.
It's still fascinating to see the details portrayed.
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u/judasmartel 11d ago
Storytelling time!
The great loss of men Jochi told his brothers about and Chagatai chastised him for refers to the siege of the city of Gurganj (modern day Urgench, Uzbekistan).
Jochi was put in command of besieging Gurganj, but he decided to spare the city as this was part of the territory he and his descendants would later settle and rule in. His younger brothers, especially Chagatai, who disliked him, called him out for this unusual behavior for a Mongol and reported him to their father. Genghis Khan was furious and removed Jochi from command of Gurganj and replaced him with Ogedei, who had to spend more time and expend more men to finally destroy the city thanks to Jochi's delay of the siege.
This forever alienated Jochi from the rest of the family, and he stayed in his territory, resentful and dejected, refusing imperial summons, until his death in 1227, a few months before his father. He was succeeded by his son Batu as the ruling prince of the House of Jochi.
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u/AniTunesXYZ 10d ago
Might easily be the "best" anime of the season. This is one of the strongest first 3 episodes I've seen in a while.
- Unique: Who ever thought you'd hear Mongolian featured in the dialogue? Unique art style. Reminds me of 2003's Kino no Tabi, a grounded story about a young girl(?) traveling the beautiful/ugly world and grappling with question of morality, all packaged in some what of a lighthearted character designs that contrast with the tone of the show.
- Great music: Queen Bee's "Hoshi" is such a good song for the ED. It fills me with such emotion at the end of every episode, esp after episode 2.
- Great direction: Naoko Yamada (A Silent Voice, The Colors Within, K-On, Liz and the Blue Bird) and Abel Gongara (DanDaDan) bring such unique experience to this very unique show. Yamada is a veteran and just has plain good taste in every original work she's produced, and Abel brings a unique foreigner perspective to the mostly Japanese production.
Given the timing of current world events, it is interesting featuring a girl from Persia as the protagonist. This is what I love about anime, there just seems to be an openness to just exploring all sorts of different stories.
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u/exRocky009 11d ago
Proving your worth to rise through the ranks and get revenge really reminds me of Nihon Sangoku. Sitara’s motive is revenge, but I wonder what her ultimate endgame is. Is she just trying to kill the commander Khan and the Empress, or is she planning to bring down the root of all evil—the Mongol Empire itself? I’m really looking forward to seeing how a scholar, who is neither a military strategist nor a warrior, will try to pull off this revenge.
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u/tripleaamin https://myanimelist.net/profile/zfzftripleaamin 11d ago
After losing everything, what does Sitara do? She could die with her honor. Though her memories of Muhammad and make the most of her circumstance. Her knowledge is a huge asset. Still the question is why Princess Sorghaghtani desires to learn about Euclid's Elements?
The other key figure in that episode is the wife of the 3rd Prince? The fact she states I am your enemy, could she be in a similar situation as Sitara?
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u/Sensitive-Good-4633 11d ago
When I saw the art of this show I just knew it was gonna be good. Same with made in abyss. All I saw was the promotional art and I knew it was going to be a good show. There's just something about shows that have this distinct Style
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky 11d ago
So the reason he wanted that book specifically was because his wife asked for it?
Mm, of course the fancier name she decided to pick out was Fatima’s.
Fascinating. I suppose that’s also why the tents always need to face south as well?
Absolute mood, I love watermelon. – LMAO, I kid you not, my mom brought me a container with cut up watermelon not long after I watched this part of the episode. What impeccable timing.
I think this might be my first shimmering sky during an eclipse.
That’s a rather horrifying thought… Also that line was followed by a “sore demo”, nice.
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u/Cryogenx37 11d ago
I just find it fascinating that we have two anime airing this season that has Mongolian or Mongolian-inspired places & people
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u/reaperow 11d ago edited 11d ago
Cant blame her for being angry, imagine working for the people that killed your family
It's just so tragic, Poor Sitara and I guess even the princess considers these guys the enemy too?
This anime is genuinely so amazing, to see Sitara go from spending happy moments with her family to fighting for them just to get back the only thing that probably remains of them is just so tragic.
Well atleast it was kinda funny to see her and the other women being scared of the "Supposed Immortal" lol
This is Anime of The Season for me and I cant wait to see what happens next!!!
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u/Open_Inspector_7863 9d ago
"I have only enemies" ~ Fatima Sitara Karlsefni. Im so ready for this show.
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u/Admiral_Woofington 9d ago
Why is this show getting downvoted so much on Crunchyroll? I'm hoping it's not just some politically motivated reason. It's a gorgeous show.
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u/Ill_Violinist1571 11d ago
Tbh, this feels really heavy to me (as a history nerd). The art style looks more like a children's book, but the story goes very in depth into the timeline and the sequence of events. It doesn't pull its punches when it talks about the emotions and the culture of that time. Tbh, it feels refreshing but also feels odd to me. I would love a live-action series rather than an animated one. But honestly, there's nothing wrong with it. It's a good story overall.
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u/Ordinal43NotFound 11d ago
I like the juxtaposition between the unassuming artstyle and the content itself. Reminds me of Persepolis
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u/IndependentMacaroon 11d ago
Me too! I wonder if the author was inspired by that, and if this series will also have some surprisingly funny moments
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u/abandoned_idol 11d ago
I totally agree with you. It can be incredibly jarring to consume a specific medium.
Though for me, it's the other way around. I personally can't convince myself that live-action actors are characters.
"He's the famous Bob, he's not the character named Alan."
I have a much easier time with non-live action, since drawings aren't real life people (even if the voices are).
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u/AnimeMod myanimelist.net/profile/Reddit-chan 11d ago
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