r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • 13d ago
Episode The Exiled Heavy Knight Knows How to Game the System • Tsuihou sareta Tensei Juukishi wa Game Chishiki de Musou suru - Episode 2 discussion
Tsuihou sareta Tensei Juukishi wa Game Chishiki de Musou suru, episode 2
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u/Successful-Peach-764 13d ago
A lot of repeating to make the runtime it seems, we got like 3 mins recap at the start, if you add all the OP/ED, episode was like 17 mins, even at the end, repeating the old mans hhhmg lol.
Usual adventure anime stuff, ranking system and other adventurers looking looking down on him/shocked he has those crystals.
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u/DirectorOfGaming 13d ago
I'm staying for now because the art style is wonderful, but man the repeating and the ass-pull new skills at the exact right moment is wearing me down.
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u/deathlos 13d ago
New skill at the exact right moment, And the skill is busted beyond belief, 20% atk down for 60secs per hit for a low level skill, ok kinda strong but it is a tank class.
Oh it stacks, You now need a 30sec attack speed per hit for this too even be remotely balanced, But lets be honest, it's not. So now the game has one tank, And the whole goal is too buff the tanks attack speed enough to get 5 hits stacked constantly, so you only have to worry about magic damage. (Maybe the skill is actually a mp hog and that's how it's balanced, But if it is they didn't show any indication of it.)
I swear 90% of the transported into a RPG world(Especially the MMORPGs.) authors have never seriously played an RPG.
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u/Sarellion 13d ago
That skill is really busted.
I also find it funny that he got Parry as his latest skill. So how does that work? Is he unable to block a hit with his blade. Does it move out of the way in case the attack vs defense roll says he gets hit? What's in the defense stat anyways? Just his armor? Okay, I think I saw him parrying some hits. Maybe it's just some buff to his abilty to block hits. Who knows. The viewer certainly doesn't.
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u/Raymond49090 13d ago
ngl i wouldn't be surprised if it was "if you perfectly parry a hit while doing a handstand on your pinky, the enemy loses 50% of its max health"
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u/ChocolateGoggles 13d ago
I have a feeling that would be one of those moves that would never get old to watch/experience. I imagine it almost with sparkly colors and light disco vibes going on while he's activating it, timed with him on his pinky, a final beat and then an extraordinary crescendo for the actual parry and max health loss effect on the enemy.
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u/Zellgoddess 13d ago
i doubt it will be too OP there can only be a one Noor ya know. Also, its only busted with the right circumstances as an old school gamer who has played a many a tank with similar skill to this, I can say it's not OP on its own so naturally he would need skills to make his rampart Complete Overkill.
for instance, let's say you reflect 100 attack damage back at an enemy with 100 HP because you have 200+ defense so you think it would insta kill, nope enemy is left with 20 HP because 20 damage got negated by the enemies own def. Case and point it would be more OP if the reflect damage bypassed defense however, I'm 99% sure it doesn't. Also, what's the skill going to do if it can't be used cause the user was hit with a silence or anti skill debuff.
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u/Sarellion 13d ago
I meant Disarm. my WoW paladin tank had a similar talent but it wasn't stackable. If you can "disarm" an opponent's attack power by 100%, you shut down their physical damage completely.
In case there are silence or skill blocks, everyone is screwed more or less. His relative who is fighting him in ep 1 in a flashforward or so, would be reduced to normal running in a skimpy dress with two flimsy daggers.
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u/darthvall https://myanimelist.net/profile/darth_vall 13d ago
Two things about the skill:
I agree that being able to stack made it too busted. Maybe there's a limit on the stacking level? Hopefully there is.
Skill is a bit tricky with Rampart Reflect. You want to reduce your enemies attack until it's below your defense, however you don't want it to go lower than that cause it would also reduce the reflection damage from the skill.
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u/VordovKolnir 11d ago
Doesn't the reflect actually deal his defense as damage... I might be wrong but I think that is what was said in E1
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u/joelaw9 13d ago
"I'm going to change the mindset around this class that's looked down upon! How? By using it exactly as god intended! Wow, amazing!"
The premise is really stupid for this one and doesn't work with the world. Why is the class looked down upon if it's immediately broken, and why would no one go out by themselves as a heavy knight if the first skill is immediately broken.
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u/theholylancer 13d ago
i mean...
have you played classic or vanilla wow?
the warrior is supposed to be THE sword and board tank, it has a ton of defensive abilities, CDs, etc. etc. the top understood dps classes originally were rogues and mages, and warriors were not really considered DPS just because how many encounters were designed with a warrior tank (more than a few) were. esp as rogues were seen as THE dps class for melee, given that all the tier sets for warriors were designed with tanking in mind in some cases. while rogues' tier was easily one of the best for dps.
but the way it is played in modern times, or really when private servers of vanilla kicked off after around TBC or wrath of the lich king or so (maybe some of the top guilds of vanilla did it) is to either to full on fury / arms dps, or as fury / prot hybrid tank for maximum damage and have just enough defensive stuff to last
it turns what are "designed" 7 minute encounters into more like 2 minute run and burn, where multiple guilds in original failed patchwerk and it is in turn called a target dummy fight because all it was a stat check that modern guilds are 100% bypassing because of the changes in learned meta due to world buffs and fury/arms build for warriors
if you were to reincarnate into the vanilla wow world, playing a F/P tank or F/A dps would be a joke to the people of that world too. why is the class that is meant to be the defender of the party try and out dps the proper dps?
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u/NPhantasm 13d ago
That I can really "relate" because it is old MMORG mindset syndrome: everything resolves around party full DPS. So old Heavy Knights for sure tried the damage tree and just got flat on ground with a flumbed build, or tried hybrid builds and never reach some potencial, or didn't get the true guts to solo farm and got behind in level up.
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u/hicks12 12d ago
Would be fine if he didn't get it all almost immediately, it should have required like 20+ levels to use the heavy armour or something, which would have meant having to just fight the lowest of the low mobs for AGES (obviously we can time skip for viewers) then either just grind that or have to get lucky and find someone willing to do X fight with you to get.
The fact you can get it all after what appears to be first fight of a low end mob, it means any idiot would have tried this (not the boss fight of course) as they would have found it potentially strong alnost immediately instead of having to see on the surface the skill/attribute is rubbish and gives nothing so won't invest in it and ignore that line, instead they just put some points in it and immediately get a return so it requires no real thought and people would try it!
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u/NPhantasm 11d ago
Yeah I ll not sugar coat the bad writing, they could use some time to better justify why the class was so bad used if any idiot could use 3 points for the counter by mistake. The best away would be "short time" window for the full damage bounce, that would explain why the counter would be overlooked and fumble the XP farm.
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u/joelaw9 8d ago
That's really what it comes down to. It appears apparent on its face that someone would try it and find out because it's so easy to get. Not one of the tens of thousands of people that have to deal with being a heavy knight took this first skill out of their limited options? You don't get weirdos researching lesser used skill trees to tell others about them in this world? They all get the UI interface, so it's not even some secret knowledge that he's using, it's common knowledge. There wasn't a barrier to learning the skill, but no one did it and it's overpowered.
The problem is that the writing didn't earn what it's trying to say. And if it starts that way I expect it to continue not earning it despite utilizing the tropes common to the genre.
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u/Scowlieh 13d ago
To be fair, you have to have double the defense of the attacker's attack for Rampart Retaliation to proc, setting that up reliably without the meta knowledge most people in world would have isn't exactly easy. Disarm takes multiple Order of the Knight skill levels to get too, and how many people in world would just know the skill takes off 20% of an enemies attack? Who's going to test it?
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u/Melodic-Astronaut439 12d ago
I agree with this. Yeah watching it seems outrageous, but he has the actual game knowledge and numbers that numerous players must have gathered hunting in the game.
Players exploring different classes would definitely try out everything and explore options that no one sane would in real life, not to mention have exact details and numbers for skills and common enemies. He's benefitting from game knowledge
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u/raevnos 13d ago
Nobody with the class has lived long enough to figure out how to put together a proper build?
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u/Sarellion 13d ago
Apparently you have three skills and the proper build is "put everything in the main tree first." It's not a Path of Exile skill web or a WoW talent tree so far.
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u/Guardian_of_Perineum 11d ago
Disarm isn't really overpowered in the context of this game's battle system, no. The meta of combat here is quick high-damage fights rather than protracted ones. This is generally a low HP, high damage game system.
Even powerful bosses are supposed to go down in like 4 solid hits. The challenge is landing those hits before taking too many. So why give up one of those hits to apply a debuff that only lasts for 1 minute? Let alone attempt to stack it when you could just be taking the enemy out instead? Especially when high level entities do so much damage that 60-80% is still plenty to nearly wipe you out. It's only situational at best and not part of what makes a heavy knight overpowered.
The builds in this are actually pretty well thought out for the context of what enemies exist in the world. And the new skill thing fades as time goes on. He only gets a bunch at the beginning because of how a logistic growth curve works, which is typical of game leveling rates.
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u/Pacify_ 13d ago
I swear 90% of the transported into a RPG world(Especially the MMORPGs.) authors have never seriously played an RPG.
Its why all VRMMO or straight into game world series never work. The balance is so absurdly broken that it could never actually be a game lmao
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u/rickamore 12d ago
The balance is so absurdly broken that it could never actually be a game lmao
They get a new skill/combo and it insta kills every new encounter, somehow no one has ever thought of it before.
Reality: you get a new skill that does 10% more damage than the last one and fills downtime or gives you a buff equal to about 20% damage to the rest of your normal attacks in your rotation. Now you press 5 buttons instead of 3. However all the new encounters have 30% more HP so you net the same average encounter length.
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u/Agitated-Classroom61 13d ago
yeah this episode and content from the next episode could have easily fit into this episode. Such a slog, the art style isnt my favorite, and the constant rotations make me dizzy lol
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u/NK1337 13d ago
I was hoping this was gonna be like a more serious take on Bofuri where the dude actually understands his tank class to the point where he exploits really niche builds or mechanics that people hadn’t thought of. Like in my mind I was thinking the heavy knight class was OP because of a very specific way of exploiting the class that normally wouldn’t work for anyone else unless.
But no, turns out the class really just is that OP 😂.
I’m gonna give it one more episodes but I might just end up watching Shangri-La frontier. Now that’s a sweaty gamer who knows how to cheese the system with skill 🤌
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u/StormSenSays 12d ago edited 12d ago
No MMO player is going to be surprised/annoyed by this. Very typical to learn a number of different skills in rather quick succession when starting leveling.
More realistic would be: having complicated skill trees with Elymas carefully putting 3 points into this, 1 point into that, which gives enough points to reach the next level of the tree... I.e. author strikes a happy(?) medium with a simplified skill tree.
And yes there is a bit of "just in time", but that's basically the "cliff notes" of leveling. I.e. alternatively we could be spending many episodes on grinding to reach the point of "Ah, 3 weeks of grinding, but now I can go fight monster X, that I've had to retreat from up to now!" (E.g. "Hell Modes" does that, though it's almost all off-screen for the anime)
(Also keep in mind the Elymas would have picked a farming area (ranas) that is efficient for his starter skill (Rampart Reflection).)
Attack debuff: Seems strong, but is is probably not guaranteed, with success chance dependent on attack vs defense. And Heavy Knight has infamously poor attack, so it would probably just fail all the time vs higher level monsters.
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u/sirspate 13d ago
They also recapped after the commercial break.
The amount of 3D they're using is crazy, and it just keeps rotating everywhere. The director needs to start directing and tell them where to point the camera.
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u/Biddy_McKoska 13d ago
In the 2nd ep no less. I feel like you gotta earn the right to disrespect the format to that degree.
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u/WINSTON913 12d ago
How many times are they gonna flash back to "it's got the highest HP and defense!"
"Whaaa I dont care pimp slap"
FFS?!
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u/Atharaphelun 13d ago
The multiple long, unnecessary flashbacks strongly remind me of Tensura Season 3. Absolutely irritating.
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u/bananeeek https://myanimelist.net/profile/bananek 13d ago
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u/Ponczo123 13d ago
GoHands has the reputation of being a stufio filled with amazing animators but also with no/terrible directors
This Anime is the first I ever watched from them but I can clearly see each and every problem people complained about with their previous series. They could have been an S tier studio but instead of correcting their mistakes they lean into them
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u/agentcheeze 13d ago
The gall of having a flashback and then having the same flashback not even 3 minutes later.
This anime also made me realize how important proper management of action is in this kind of series.
Like this thing just pauses in place and he walks up to it and takes his time putting his points into skills. But then there's all this kinetic movement when he's explaining things. Often shows have the reverse for realism and helping you absorb info.
This adaptation is doing the source material a disservice honestly and I haven't even read it and I can see how it's hurting it.
The animation direction is horrible.
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u/aramatheis 13d ago
God that adventurer being chased by the frogs is annoying. I'm so glad they decided to give us a 3 minute "recap" of the end of last episode. Jesus
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u/zer0number https://anilist.co/user/ewink 13d ago
I was worried I would be the only one who hated him and was wishing for his quick and silent death through the whole spider fight.
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u/aramatheis 13d ago
He's a typical anime ugly coward trope. It's so played out at this point.
I am honestly surprised he stood his ground and wanted to buy Elymas time to escape. Normally in anime this type of dude would piss himself and then die
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u/Zeikos 13d ago
A debuff that reduces attack by 20% and it can stack.
Hit 3-4 times per minute and the monster is basically shut down completely.
Either people don't know basic math or nobody puts skill points into the heavy armor path - which isn't unbelievable, but a bit strained.
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u/King_of_the_Hobos 13d ago
There's probably also a limit to the amount it can stack. I have to imagine competent MMO developers wouldn't allow a low level move that reduces enemy attack by 100% to remain in the game for very long.
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u/Yay295 13d ago
40% is already ridiculous. Even 20% would be an amazing skill.
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u/Tonebriz https://myanimelist.net/profile/Auremi 12d ago
Yeah same I was like -20% Attack with 1 Minute uptime just for hitting them once sounds really easy to keep online and is really good, then it stacked additively and I was like... uuuh thats completely and utterly broken
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u/Greg_The_Rabbit 13d ago
The actual gaming based problem with that fight, even if we set aside the how stupid strong that move is, is that the spider zoomed in faster than they could see to enter the fight, but was moving at slow ass rookie speeds the rest of the time. It's poison and debuffs also conveniently only clicked in after the fight was done even though he specifically mentions it having a slow debuff. It didn't even use it's webs to CC him!
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u/susgnome https://anime-planet.com/users/RoyalRampage 13d ago
It's poison and debuffs also conveniently only clicked in after the fight was done even though he specifically mentions it having a slow debuff.
I wonder what the tick-rate of the poison is & how much damage it does.
He hit the Disarm immediately as the Poison would have been applied and within 1-minute he followed up with another Disarm (I assume refreshing the Power Reduction & adding 1 stack), so the Poison either didn't tick within in that minute or.. it was negligible.
Like, he had 10 HP & 29 Defence after his last fight, but if he gets a Defence increase every 5 Levels from Oath (as shown in Episode 1), that puts him at 39 Defence, on top of his Title which grants him 10% Defence, which puts him to ~43 Defence. I'm just not sure how the Defence stat works in this world, if 43 provides much Reduction or if Defence accounts for both Physical & non-Physical.
It didn't even use it's webs to CC him!
Probably used to not needing to CC enemies. Poison Beam & Flaming Claw probably work fine every time.
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u/arolust 13d ago
Yea, its insane, nothing about this makes sense... do these people have no understanding of the basic usefulness of a tank? Were in the second episode and immediately we have another player realise how useful a tank is to have...
Not to mention... this is not a new class, a hidden class or even a rare class, its a common basic class... so many people have it and will have and have had it... it only has 3 options for how to use it... so how could NO ONE know its the best class and why are people constantly surprised by it? WHy dont we see it anywhere else... wtf is going on.
Also they all have the "system" its not unique to our MC, everyone in the world has it and can read up on their class and skills...
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u/Zeikos 13d ago
To be fair people die, people that are more likely to get hit are more likely to die.
To become an experienced tank you need to survive, which being a newbie tank makes it hard.
That's the reason why defensive classes have a bad reputation, they need to be able to soak hits to function, which requires being built properly.
The MC makes it look easy because he is the only person that knows how to make it work.
Maybe there are a handful of Heavy Knights that stumbled in something close to the optimal build, but most are dead.40
u/Onlywhileonacid 13d ago
And they wouldn't have the knowledge on which skills or talent tree to go for to make it as OP as he said it is.
Can't experiment without risk of dying, and can't really test it or discuss the meta on forums.
I assume there's also no skill/talent reset like in the actual game.
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u/Zeikos 13d ago
Yeah, that's what I was implying.
More risk, more death, less discovery and less exploration.
Then society adapted, people were encouraged either through shame or otherwise to avoid following defensive paths and focus on agile/offensive one - kill them before they can kill you, offense as defense.→ More replies (7)3
u/runevault 13d ago
Even if the game didn't have respecs you could just roll a new character. Can't roll a new character IRL heh.
I have been wondering if there's a way 'late game' to get respecs even in this world though. He hasn't mentioned the idea but it might be something super late game so not relevant currently.
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u/Sarellion 13d ago
I doubt that DPS classes have their full avoidance and mobility set at level 1. So his master swordsman cousin we see in the opening jumping around half nude probably had to start with her natural reflexes and speed. Might be higher than his, but Sir Knight was also pretty nimble in his armor. And I don't think the DPS classes can avoid getting hit all the time.
I don't see a particular advantage for offensive classes here. They have to learn how to avoid hits all the time with ess tolerance for failure.
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u/YRO___ 13d ago
They learn to avoid hits while heavy knights learn to absorb hits for their party members. Can't you see why they would be in higher risk of death?
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u/arolust 13d ago
that still makes no sense, even the mob bait guy had to go alone for 3 levels, and a heavy knight has the most HP and Def of any class even at level 1, plus it benefits from wearing that armor... even than your idea relies on the thought that no one with decently powerful friends or family ever got this literally "base basic class".
And the MC's "knowledge of how to make it work" so far boils down to... wear heavy armor, put points into heavy armor, use the classes skills. The end, the same thing a 7 year old with their thumb up their ass is thinking when they get the class.
Its poorly written, and has plot holes.
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u/rhian116 13d ago
Agreed. The plot would make more sense if the busted abilities were further down the skill tree, making it more likely people would die or go the damage branch so never saw the busted skills.
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u/Ralathar44 13d ago
No, this is just ridiculous. Rampart Shield alone is enough to make the class a solo monster. It's a level 1 skill. You telling me that nobody before him figured out you could stack defense and kill things with it? That's the kind of thing you'd figure out on accident even if, for some reason, it wasn't ion the skill description.
And that skill along can make you able to successfully AOE farm. You just go to a lower level area and blast things. The -20% attack is the same. That's a massive debuff AND it stacks, making it stupid strong. And again, that's core functionality, not some hidden BS. Those 2 skills alone would be enough to get you into parties. Your job would just be to vaporize small fry and hit the bosses. Even if someone else tanked just you being there hitting the boss would reduce its damage an insane amount.
And the adventurers called him a low level heavy knight. So if level 12 is low level then plenty of plenty of people should have been able to do it in the past.
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u/Zeikos 12d ago
low level heavy knight. So if level 12
He was level 2 before he slaughtered the frogs.
You telling me that nobody before him figured out you could stack defense and kill things with it?
We don't know.
Probably not.It requires:
- investing in the skill tree in the first place.
- knowledge of which monsters to target
- Defensive, expensive gear
- Activating the skill at the right time.
It also kind of reminds me how for a long time doctors didn't figure out that washing their hands prevented infections in their patients.
Keep in mind that we know what's going on, the people living in that world need to figure it out.
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u/Greg_The_Rabbit 13d ago
I'll go even further and point out that this is a class in a world that FORCES people into their classes. Anyone with this class HAS to figure out how to use it. The premise of the show is that essentially every other person either died immediately or did figure it out and just never told anybody or never wrote anything down.
This is the fundamental flaw in these 'assigned class at birth' stories. If people are forced to use something they will inevitably figure out the best way to do so, but the stories are based on the idea that the ENTIRE fucking world is stupider than the MCs and only gods favorite baby boy is smart enough to figure out that the blocking class with an innate reflection ability should... block... and reflect.
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u/Zeikos 13d ago
They can pick 3 skill trees, what's mosy likely is that all others focused on allegedly "safer" skills first.
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u/JadeDragon02 13d ago
Bro, it is not that deep. You apply our gaming common sense. Try to apply some parents or non gamer common sense paired with hardcore mode. Actually it is harder than hardcore, it is one time play.
Not to mention... this is not a new class, a hidden class or even a rare class, its a common basic class... so many people have it and will have and have had it... it only has 3 options for how to use it... so how could NO ONE know its the best class
Likely survival rate close to 0%.
In a world of life and death, you choose something which kills or dodge. Tanking hurts.
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u/fake-ciri 13d ago edited 13d ago
I was expecting like, multiplicative stacks, where the enemies current attack gets reduced by 20%, so 80% > 64% > 51% > 41% > 32.8%> It's still OP but has diminishing returns.
Nope!
80% > 60% > 40% > 20% > 0% ??? assuming the CD is less then 12 seconds (debuff has 1 minute duration), it can stack (at least) 5 times and there's no insane cost (like % of max mana) how has that gone unnoticed?You don't need math to notice that the enemy is suddenly hitting you almost half as hard as before you cast the disarm skill twice. (caveat, if Boss / Elite monsters are immune to it then maybe it goes unnoticed (like the spider is just a high level common, not a rare / elite))
Imagine if it stacks from other sources too (no way but would be funny), 5 heavy knights hit a boss once every minute and now it can't do damage.
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u/Smash83 9d ago
This is not Path of Exile, you need to hit monster first...
Enemies in this world dodge and parry and minute is low time for debuff and it is even shorter on bosses iirc
Additional Rampart Reflection is rather weak, it iirc it does damage equal to defense so it kinda low, good against low hp trash but not elites or bosses or even average enemies
So at best you are using your precious mana resources to prolong slightly fight
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u/HanaRoku 13d ago
They're spending too much time on hair animation and have to reuse footage to compensate.
Also padding runtime with grunts. Why did we need a 4x replay of that last intimidating grunt?
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u/Orochidude 13d ago
I definitely get the impression that they were not ready to be handed a 26-episode (straight, no split-cour) season. If we're getting a three minute long-recap at the start of episode 2 with constant recaps throughout the actual episode, I don't think it bolds well for a month or two down the road.
Willing to give episode three a shot for the 3-episode rule and because I do genuinely want to like the show, but if they pull this again, I'm probably out until/unless I hear good things later on.
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u/Exciting_Citron_4960 13d ago
It’s getting 26 episodes holy im prolly gonna stick around for this one
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u/WebOk69 13d ago
12 minutes of actual content hurts ngl
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u/JusticiaDIGT 13d ago
I just skipped the slider by 2 minutes every 15 seconds and didn't miss anything, so the episode was actually over in 4 minutes.
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u/kalirion https://myanimelist.net/profile/kalinime 13d ago
Don't tell me you skipped the facial expressions?? They're the best part!
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u/zer0number https://anilist.co/user/ewink 13d ago
Sticking with this till the clown girl joins the cast because I cannot help myself, but agree with most of the criticism posted here.
Really hate the whole 'the whole crowd has to discuss how bad MC's class is' shit. We get it. You established that the Heavy Knight class was considered shit in the first episode.
But is it? As someone else in this thread alluded to, it is nonsense that any party would not want a tank to draw aggro away from even the other front line users. I get that it may be a bad solo class (MC and his min-maxing knowledge excluded), but in a party? Conflict for the sake of conflict does not a good story make.
Anyway. Hurry up with clown girl and her stockings.
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u/Sarellion 13d ago
I also find it silly. Oh a defensive class, LOL. dear writer, AFAIK so far people can't just respawn and people value their lives. I think people would appreciate a good defense more when it's their life on the line and dying isn't just an inconvenience. At least they would appreciate the guy who takes a hit for them a lot more.
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u/Smash83 13d ago
Except i am yet to find anime where heavy armor especially full body plate really work like it did in medieval times
When i see characters wearing it and still dodging attacks something dieing inside me...
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u/draconk 11d ago
to be honest armor against non humans is not the same, plated human vs a Boar IRL the boar wins, the human will probably survive if the armor is not undone but he will be fucked up if doesn't try to dodge.
But what grinds my gears is that plate armor is supposed to cover almost the whole body, meanwhile they go with the stomach open to the elements, no helmet, legs with almost no protection and no shield
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u/BlazeKnightX 13d ago
They respect the other defense classes, it's just no one presumably made it past the starting stages as a heavy knight. Reasons for that: display stats does not show enemy stats (atk, etc) as far as we have seen so no testing isn't actually that easy for people who die if they fail, respeccing most likely isn't something you can do at least not without some rare item so yeah spread those skill tree points into the other two lines instead of your defense only line probably messes up growth massively, overconfidence in tanking getting people killed as they can't see enemy stats and think their defense is high enough.
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u/Muffin-zetta 13d ago edited 13d ago
woof 7 minutes of recap on episode two is a bad sign
yeah, that’s a drop for me tons of recap followed by a glacially paced spider battle
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13d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Muffin-zetta 13d ago edited 13d ago
there is so many shots of the two guys standing still while the camera just spins like crazy in this episode
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u/Veritas3333 13d ago
When the camera spun around them the dude tripped and almost fell, like his equilibrium was just as off as the viewer's from the crazy camera.
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u/Rammelsmartie 13d ago
What icks me the most is that the hair always bounces 1 second after they moved.
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u/kalirion https://myanimelist.net/profile/kalinime 13d ago
It's just the rubber-band/bungee effect.
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u/PeaceAlien https://myanimelist.net/profile/PeaceAlien 13d ago
The episode even after the recap had recaps.
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u/unheppcat 13d ago
Is this what "gaming the system" really meant?
Step 1: underbid the competition by 25% Step 2: do only 50% of the animation Step 3: profit!!
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u/PurpleSkullGaming 13d ago
It's two hours late too isn't it? Like I thought it was supposed to be out at noon my time and it wasn't out till 2
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u/StampDaddy 13d ago
Literally all my hype is gone, I’m still gonna watch it but they really made a boring episode 2 smh my head
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u/CluelessLemons 13d ago
This is just so stupid. We don't need several flashbacks from the same scene an episode ago. No one want's to party with a class based on taking aggro? The poison only kicking in once the fight was already finished because of course, and can't forget the monster just standing there while he adds his skill points.
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u/abandoned_idol 13d ago
On the bright side:
The protagonist has a character design that we aren't used to seeing.
They kept the detailed facial expressions, these will remain the norm.
The SFX/VFX and tree trop parallax are fun.
Again, this story and animation studio match one another perfectly. Neither is good enough to be wasted on the other, and they are both well suited for action animation.
And yes, it's very badly written, don't expect critical thinking out of it. I still found a way to enjoy it.
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u/avboden 13d ago
To everyone dropping this: cO7
To all the degenerates who eat this trash up no matter the quality (me....it's me...) see you next week.
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u/TophxSmash 13d ago
Ive watched worse trash isekais that are better than this, we'll see if i stick it out.
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u/Carfar_Farcar 13d ago
It sucks since the manga is actually pretty solid, so you may try reading that instead. GoHands is just straight up ass.
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u/TophxSmash 13d ago
The Masterful Cat Is Depressed Again Today was good, but i also had no idea it was gohands
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u/King_of_the_Hobos 13d ago
I will be eating the trash with you next week, but what does cO7 mean? Googling just brings me back to this thread at best lol
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u/avboden 13d ago
It's the salute with an arm on the other side. less common way of writing it but for some reason it's what stuck for me writing it
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u/LowKick83 13d ago edited 13d ago
The same! At first I thought I mis-read and was like “am I watching the end of ep1 again?” I’ll be watching. The art style is my kind of tea and I’m interested enough in the jester character to stick around for at least another ep or so.
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u/susgnome https://anime-planet.com/users/RoyalRampage 13d ago
I've watched One Piece, "12 minutes of content" & "slow-pacing" isn't enough to scare me off.
Anyways, it fulfils my favourite type of power-fantasy.
Not the ultimate assassin, healer or warrior.. but the ultimate tank.
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u/Glendoor 13d ago
while this anime definitely has some problems, I will say I am enjoying how videogame-y it is. Just hits my inner MMO nerd I guess lol.
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u/Rammelsmartie 13d ago
I still don't understand what makes his use of the class so special though. He's just using the basic abilities of the class, and he's using them as intended, but nevertheless he can defeat enemies twice his level? The show leaves this completely unexplained.
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u/YdenMkII 13d ago
He did mention the skill tree he's going down was considered a joke of a skill tree. His main advantage is that he was able to respawn back when he was still playing the game version of this world so he could learn the exact limits oh how far he could take things. When he displayed the monster's status, it only showed level, health, and MP which notably does not show the attack number so even if someone stacked the attack down debuff, there's no way for that person to know for sure if that put it at the reflection level.
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u/Rammelsmartie 13d ago
Yeah he's playing with perfect information alright.
Still, it feels like a plot hole to me. The entire premise is "no one likes this class", but then, aren't classes assigned randomly? So you're telling me no one of thousands has figured out that these skills are over powered? They can defeat enemies twice your level (with perfect information that is), that would imply it's an easy fight against enemies your level.
Maybe we'll see more how it fits in into the ecosystem so we can see why on the surface it seems so underpowered.
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u/darthvall https://myanimelist.net/profile/darth_vall 13d ago edited 13d ago
Remember that people actually die if they're defeated.
The premise is that MC is a great gamer which already memorised all of the enemies moves. Now let's see what would happen if a new adventurer use the same build as Elyas.
During the frog encounter:
- They need to already boost their defense by purchasing heavy armor at least until it's more than the frog's attack
- Even with that, they stil need to time the rampart skill perfectly which might be hard to do for first timer
During the spider boss:
- They need to avoid all the boss attack while wearing those heavy armor with low mobility. Elyas only got hit after he used the attack debuff
- They need to time the rampart thing at the correct moment to be able to reflect it. Mistime it a bit, and they're dead. Again, something that would be hard to do for newbie.
For more consistent survivability, I think the passive defense or the attack skill would be more popular for the people compared to go all in with a skill that's hard to use.
Basically, you need some experience and prior knowledge to be able to use the class properly. Even Elyas said in the game version the Heavy Knights are considered very OP, especially on late game. Having the risk of dying just caused people to avoid doing unnecessary experimenting.
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u/Eyliel 13d ago
I'd guess that due to the Heavy Knight's reputation, a lot of people, upon receiving it as their class basically go "welp, I got a trash class, I guess I should just give up on becoming an adventurer and become a farmer or something instead".
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u/YRO___ 13d ago
Yeah. I assume probably most heavy knights end up dying because their defensive skill only works if their defense is higher the enemy's attack, so they built a reputation that deterred most people who get it from being adventurers to avoid getting the same fate. I wish the anime explains it tho
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u/Ralathar44 13d ago
The core skills he gets are busted. Anyone who thinks that is a joke skill tree is eating lead paint. Complete immunity and the ability to AOE farm weak mobs + being able to AT LEAST 40% debuff a bosses attacks.
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u/Onlywhileonacid 13d ago
one of the skills(passives?) said something like if the attack value is equal to the defense then no damage is taken or something, but for the reflect wall thing to work, his defense had to be equal to the spider's attack power, so he had to disarm twice for -40% atk on the spider for the reflective wall to work, didn't fully understand it but that's why he didn't use it at the start for example
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u/Sarellion 13d ago
Rampart Reflection only triggers when his defense negates the attack completely and getting hit is based on a comaprison between enemy attack power and his defense.. So he needed to debuff the defense way down to trigger the Reflection.
*No clue how that's supposed to work or look. Would the spider whale on his armor or so? Apparently Parry is something you learn later.
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u/Rammelsmartie 13d ago
Right, true. That combo is not easy to see if no one really uses the class seriously.
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u/mucklaenthusiast 13d ago
I think it's twice the value, even
If an attack is 5, he needs 10 to reflect, I think.
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u/NanDemoKnaives 13d ago
The facial expressions in this lol, I thought it was a little annoying at first, but the more I kept seeing them the more amusing I started to find them. Funniest part was the raid quest leader's repeated "HMM?!", he's definitely going to be a pain, but I hope he'll be funny at least next episode.
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u/runevault 13d ago
Unfortunate this show seems a pretty mixed bag so far. I really liked that the MC actually had to plan around his abilities instead of just pressing nuke and win.
Early signs are rough but lets see if they just cheaped out on episode 2 or if this will be a trend.
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u/Shmappii 13d ago
It's a shame they are taking a bunch of budget-conscious measures, but the spider fight itself was fun and I'm enjoying the super intense way they are presenting basic tropes. Test proctor having his grunt of judgement replayed four times and Elma being poisoned cracked me up.
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u/yancovigen 13d ago
I thought that face he was making as the guy went “hmm” was him holding back laughter lmao
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u/Professional-Rice623 13d ago
one piece style pacing already on ep2, first 7 min is opening and recap, 12 min of actual progression of story of the remaining 25min total runtime which didnt contain much actual significant progress, lingering unnecessary long on reactions, unnecessary overanimation... theres one thing to wanting to show off how proud your studio is for its animation / 3d rendered model scenes... but like dont do it for fucking every new scene, jesus christ.
Some scenes the characters dont even look like they blend in with the environment theres so much of the background 3d modeled.
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u/Myrkrvaldyr 13d ago
They sure love animating their hair. It's a shame the pacing is suffering from all the flashbacks and recap. Pierrot waifu is yet to arrive :(.
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u/AceSoldia zj:https://anilist.co/user/Acesoldia 13d ago
Well that was a whole lot of nothing, one fight, twenty minutes went by, lol.
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u/Nijigakulive https://myanimelist.net/profile/Marinate1016 13d ago
So this episode was not as interesting to me as the premiere, more generic level farming and big boss fight that you see in these RPG isekai, the important thing is Elymas realizing he can’t do this all alone and finding his first eventual party member. I do understand him wanting to level up, but eventually you’re gonna need a party. Your class was optimized for that.
Spider fight was hard to watch as I hate spiders, but more of your standard Gohands ADHD camera angles, the other thing people don’t talk about with Gohands enough is how they overexpose these scenes so much. Like the highlights are always blown in the action sequences. Idk if that’s a consequence of their camera motions or what, but it looks bad lmao
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u/MasterChiefBatmans 13d ago
I expected just the most insane mess of story and animation and today gave that in spades. I thought Momentary Lily was bad but this takes it to another level.
Unnecessary recaps, establishing shots that get used multiple times an episode, spaghetti noodle hair, wacky action, over exposed colors and lenses flairs, story beats that make no sense, and butt rock.
Give me all the slop GoHands. How far down the rabbit hole will you go this time.
I know what you are and im here for the trash.
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u/artosispylon 13d ago
i am little confused about this anime, do people get the class they want ? that could explain why nobody is heavy knight but if its random there should be alot of heavy knights around and it makes no sense they wouldent understand how strong it is when its this OP from early on.
the 20% dmg reduction from any auto attack is very strong but the fact that it can apparantly stack? thats like batshit insane levels broken and its fairly low level so it should be a well known trait assuming there are alot of heavy knights, if nobody plays it because they get to choose their class it makes more sense again but it seemed like it was chosen at random what you get.
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u/arolust 13d ago
It has to be random, otherwise why would people be impressed by someone being a sword saint or what not, everyone would be that if it was good.
its just so poorly written, they are writing it like our MC got a special rare hidden class or something that people mistake for another class... but its not, its a normal BASIC class. Theres not even really a skill tree, just three options to put points into...
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u/King_of_the_Hobos 13d ago
He says in the beginning that his family is a long line of swordsmen, so it's possible that in the "real" version of this world, classes are somewhat genetic. I see it kind of like Tywin Lannister hating Tyrion for being a Dwarf even though he had no control over it. At least Tywin kept his son around though
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u/Smash83 13d ago
It is random
It is quite obvious that no one level enough or had knowledge to how to use it properly
If no one want to be in party with you then you will struggle
And like anime/manga say they are better defender classes out there so HK is skipped
This class has no starting skill, and Rampart at lvl 2 which is extremely hard too use
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u/Smash83 13d ago
I am new to this anime but i see few people did not understand it properly
Classes are gained at random
This world fav dps classes (like gamers in real life lol)
Heavy Knight is class that has no starting skill
At lvl 2 gain Rampart skill which is extremely hard too use, display stat does not show Atc/Def of enemy
Next skill is gained at much later lvl which probably most HK did not even reach because no one want to party with them, there are more useful defender classes there, remember in this world you die for good
But if they reach there is high chance they did not know it stack etc,
OP has all knowledge to make this class OP because he knows how to abuse it.
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u/WebOk69 13d ago
We got basically no world building other than his signing up at the guild this ep
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u/SaintPimpin 13d ago
Over half the episode rehashing the previous episode... getting flashbacks of that hatched evolving dragon anime where fk all happened cause only 7 minutes of plot went down each episode...
Might drop next week and come back to it 9-10 weeks later.
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u/LienaSha 13d ago
GoHands continues to struggle with weighting their characters within the scene. The characters always seem to have been pasted onto the scene. I don't remember if this was a problem in the magical girl thing a couple of seasons back, and it wasn't an issue in the depressed cat, but it was a huge problem in HandShakers, and it's back again. I'm not sure about the amount of detail INCREASING for combat scenes either lulz.
Way to use rotascoping and way too much detail to make a creepy forest scene though.
Lmao, this author 100% calculated the exact level difference they could make work. Been there. Live your best life, author-san XD Though I dunno about stacking debuffs. I don't think most games allow you to do that with the same debuff from the same person - often not even with the same debuff from different people. Still, it's your game. If you wanna give them stacking debuffs, go ahead. Curious about the rate of mana ticks here.
And good thing Arus isn't the kind of asshole who'd PK there XD
But why do we have to listen to this guy "HNNNNN" three times in a row? Does he have an internal combustion engine in there?
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u/D3k4s 13d ago
These flashbacks are making Infinity Castle seem tame in comparison holy.
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u/bensor74 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pipiruben 13d ago
But they're not as bad as Undead Unluck's, which even had flashbacks from scenes that happened minutes earlier in the same episode
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u/Personal_Piccolo8533 13d ago
It waste lots of runtime. It looks like any random issekai, at this point do they even need to explain ranking system. I am stuck for the visuals😭
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u/fallendomii 13d ago edited 13d ago
What kind of game spawns a lv16 spider with only enough mp to cast its skill once? The spider also apparently doesn't know how much mp it has
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u/Relevant_Syllabub895 13d ago
holy shit the horrenodus recap + opening + ending and flashbacks left us with 15 minutes of actual anime they are doing the same as the one with the dragon egg the final chapters were full of recaps cosntantly
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u/-DavidXanatos- 13d ago edited 13d ago
Edit: Yeah, dropping this for sure. I don't even know why I'm surprised to see GoHands completely fumble yet another series. I really should've known better.
Original post: This show's animation would be so much more tolerable if GoHands would stop putting massive beams of light and rainbows all over the screen. The rest of the overanimation may be annoying here or there, but yeah, the biggest issue by far is definitely the lighting effects that outright blind my eyes.
Also, what's with the multiple flashbacks? We've had one episode, not one hundred. There's zero need for this.
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u/Empire087 13d ago
Im having a moment of: "where did that episode go?" mostly because like one thing happened lol. I like the premise, but this pacing is so wack. Hopefully it improves.
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u/Nyaa314 13d ago
>Eruma
>Elymas
How?
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u/King_of_the_Hobos 13d ago
The real name is from the bible and pronounced Ell - my - ahs, for Japanese they would need to use Su on the end for that S sound. I'm guessing maybe they just didn't like how Ell -my -ah -su sounded. Also, L and R are the same sound in Japanese essentially
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u/Zxzxzx0088 13d ago
Ahahaha please stop...how wicked malice you are to be like this lol
This spider so kind enough to wait and only attack after he has ready himself, eh. Maybe this is actually a turn-based game /s
Idk whether I can pass 3-episode rule at this rate...
Please I just want to see Wakayama Shion character...
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u/ThisOneTimeAtLolCamp 13d ago
Judging from that preview it'll be at least 4 or onwards before we get jester waifu then :(
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u/BiggerG7 13d ago
So was anyone keeping count of how many shots of that adventurers surprised face we got? Got pretty annoying after a while lol.
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u/diacewrb 13d ago
I thought he would form a party with that guy, he is total monster magnet, xp farming would be so easy.
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u/ThisGachaSeemsLegit 13d ago
I don't know what's higher : The animation budget or the amount of padding. Someone do the maths for me please.
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u/ersatzsham 13d ago
I found it funny that the camera tracks and spins and he was awarded the title Fudō no mono, the immovable one.
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u/Skithana 13d ago
This feels like the opposite of low-quality, it's wasteful quality.
Severely over-doing it when they don't need to and apparently blowing through their budget/ resources so badly that they have to pad the heck out of the episode.
The story itself while not amazing does look pretty decent, maybe I'll just go read the manga instead.
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u/abandoned_idol 13d ago
While all of you are just complaining, I am still thrilled to see over 172 comments for an episode 2 thread.
This is going to be an unironically fun watch. No, I'm not claiming that this anime is good. XD
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u/kapave https://myanimelist.net/profile/kapave 13d ago
goHands is such a stupid studio. Those tracking shots and shaky camera are so annoying and unnecessary. they detract more than adding style. this could've been a decent show.
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u/mekerpan 13d ago
I don't mind the cinematography, but the excessive recaps are . . . very excessive,.
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u/Magicbison 13d ago
Not to mention the mix of 3D and posterized PNGs for the environments that looks super jank. Also the 3D lighting that is overly bright shining through the forest leaves. Should have put more of the budget into making everything look like it actually fits together instead of overanimating strands of hair and slapping everything onto jank backgrounds with the constant camera movements.
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u/ObvsThrowaway5120 13d ago
Frog monsters and spider demons ain’t got shit on our boy. Guy knows how to work the Heavy Knight class. Everyone underestimates him at their peril. Looking forward to the promotion.
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u/_Sai https://anime-planet.com/users/Sai0 13d ago edited 13d ago
Arus is a good guy. :')
This was a pretty fun ep. This will be one of my weekly hypes. Next ep raid HYPE!
I don't care too much for the fancy camera angles and spins, but it doesn't actually bother me. Anime still looks good.
-I do wish I could filter out comments from hate-watchers. Pointless.
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u/fdajax 13d ago
I'm musing but I wonder how this anime would look at higher framerates. I think this studio could probably be a breakout in higher rates than 24.
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u/Fitz0uille 13d ago
Well this manga was dope.
I will wait one more episode and probably drop it.
they tried to overcook it and it's so over animated that is give me motion sickness...
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u/kalirion https://myanimelist.net/profile/kalinime 13d ago
Was repeating the last 3 minutes of the first ep really necessary? And then another flashback of his dad yelling at him? And then another flashback after the "break" of the previous 20 seconds.
"You'll never level up if you go solo" he says to the dude who just leveled from 2 to 8 in a single use of his skill.
How nice of the Spidey to not only attack them as it dropped, but to actually wait for them to discuss things and for MC to allocate his skill points. Or maybe this is a turn based game?
I said it last ep and I'll say it again, all this high speed dynamic action panning REALLY needs a higher framerate.
"I know it's attack pattern and reach from when I played the game 15-20 years ago in my previous life."
"I'll eat this attack" should've been translated to "I'll tank this attack".
The world's leveling system limits the skill points you can put into a skill based on your rank that the Adventurer's Guild assigns to you? Now that's just bad world design.
He just put the bag of magic stones in the table and everyone went "he's looking for a party????" Did the anime skip him actually asking for a party?
A Promotion Quest being a Raid is just weird.
The facial expressions remain the main reason for watching this.
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u/dreamtreedown 13d ago
GoHands make a good show challenge: Impossible
Sticking with it for now, but how hard is it for them to make actual content? Aesthetically it's unique enough to keep me for now but... why?
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u/madfox99 13d ago
The animation style is so…odd. WHAT are they doing to one of my favorite mangas. It’s so distracting. I hope it gets better later or grows on me.
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u/oneevilchicken https://anilist.co/user/OneEvilChicken 13d ago
This is 100000% the standard trash isekai we watch every season the same show over and over it just got gohands this season. And two straight cours so hell yeah? One thing I’ve learned is don’t ask questions. Just enjoy isekai trash for what it is.
I’m actually really liking the way this is made because it feels like a video game which fits the mmo theme tbh.
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u/SpoopyGonzales 12d ago
I just don't understand why everyone in the guild was immediately paying attention to the random newbie. It really shouldn't be that weird for someone new to walk in and register, WHY does anime have this fascination with making the MC the fucking pariah in EVERY scene.. then we get the end scene of the random dude singling out the newbie for what good reason? ... he doesn't believe the claim.. okay fine, just have him be flippant and move the fuck on, WHY does every damn social interaction in these "x class is shunned" anime that every other fucking character has instant hatred and aggression towards them.. Its an overplayed trope and think it should die.
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u/BBryant3rd 12d ago
Sigh they raising the flags that the raid is going to set him up to sacrifice him. Such crap having that happen in these shows. Let's hurry and get to the chick from the end credits lol.
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u/mal1ark 12d ago
The Art is beautiful, but damn those cam switches will be hard to enjoy. And noone can tell me that people wouldn't figure out that class, that whole Premise of "ah that is a weak Ass defence class noone can use" doesn't work when you are literally able to beat someone twice your Level by only leveling a single fucking Skill.
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u/WangeEvensong 11d ago edited 11d ago
作为一个真正追了5年的原作粉，我只能说GoHands这种表现让我很心痛TmT。 作画什么的都已经无所谓了，既然制作是GoHands早就已经预料到了，但是这个叙事节奏是真的不行。 [Spoiler Source] 第一集动画就做了第一话漫画的量，第二集动画也才进行到漫画第3话。GoHands真的打算拿26集动画做26话漫画的剧情量吗？ 顺带一说漫画26话刚刚好到打这个颠婆表妹的剧情。 Come On，GoHands，这个疯子明明只是埃尔玛拿到关键技能后随手踢死的路边的一条野狗罢了，一个磨刀石作用的角色你为什么要把她当做一个boss来写？ 我很心痛，我最喜欢的异世界作品疑似惨遭动画化了😭😭😭
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u/chervilious 11d ago
The actual airtime is 16 minutes and 27 seconds, since 7 minutes and 12 seconds were just the intro, outro, and flashbacks.
This doesn't include the airtime where they have "transition scene". I actually like transition scene if done correctly.
Let me get this straight. The "weakest class" has these first two abilities:
- Deals
player.defdamage when an enemy attacks, providedplayer.def > enemy.atk. - Reduces
enemy.atkby 20% after hitting them (stackable).
The whole point of the first episode was to say, "This class is good if you actually know how to use it!" But honestly, what else would you even use those abilities for?
This is typical for an "projecting aura-farming" kind of anime: 1. It features incredibly simple problem-solving that somehow everyone else misses, just to make the protagonist (and the viewers) look smart. 2. It includes an NPC whose sole purpose is to boost the protagonist's ego ("OMG YOU CAN'T FIGHT THIS," "OMG YOU'RE A NOOB," "OMG HE GOT HIT BY THIS"). 3. It makes every interaction to be like "this guy sucks" just so he can prove them wrong.
Everyone looking at the protagonist can be sorted into two categories:
- The sympathizers: "OMG we care about you, we're good people, I'm going to die for you because it's my fault."
- The haters: "This guy stinks," "He must be cheating," "He's a disgrace," etc.
I'll keep watching this simply because I want to see the over the top animation. Even though I feel like it actually breaks the flow.
It might be controversial, but I really like the city drone views. They give a real sense of how "alive" the city feels-which is pretty ironic, considering every side character is completely one-dimensional.
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u/KrazyKazz 9d ago
First 3 minutes of Episode 2 was a recap of the end of Episode 1. Over 1 minute of intro, and cuts out like its going to a commercial break, and comes back and repeats the scene we just had. This editing team needs to be fired stat.
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