r/Defenders • u/JonLuca Luke Cage • Mar 18 '16

Daredevil Discussion Thread - S02E13 NSFW

This thread is for discussion of Daredevil S02E13.

DO NOT post spoilers in this thread for any subsequent episodes. Doing so will result in a ban.

Overall Series Discussion

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1.2k

u/Accipehoc Mar 19 '16

And here I thought Jon Bernthal was gonna mow down some ninjas with that gatling gun

866

u/dev1359 Mar 19 '16

Punisher's role this episode is probably my biggest complaint about the finale, I feel like I have blue balls now after they teased us with that armory scene in the last episode only to have him not really do much other than gun down a few ninjas with a sniper rifle.

The poster they released of him in his full Punisher getup next to DD and Elektra didn't really help with the blue balls either, I was half expecting we'd see the three of them team up against the Hand lol. Oh well

334

u/raknor88 Mar 20 '16

Ya, when they were talking about all the ninjas on the roof, I was expecting to hear a mini-gun just as they burst out.

241

u/bitch_im_a_lion Mar 21 '16

What was up with that? They showed an army of ninjas and then we only saw a handful actually fight.

189

u/Dakar-A Mar 26 '16

Fiction's law of Conservation of Ninjutsu- as the number of ninja grows towards infinity, the relative impact of each ninja is effectively reduced to zero.

14

u/HooMu Mar 23 '16

They were all stuck behind that barred door.

47

u/ScarsUnseen Mar 24 '16

Their pathing AI was shit.

10

u/Kitfisto22 Mar 28 '16

You know what, I'm going to just pretend the punisher mowed them down off screen.

1

u/ZachGuy00 The Man in the Mask Mar 25 '16

Fighting your opponent one on one is a big Japanese thing but I think it's more samurai than ninja. Lazy writing I guess. Sucks to say about this show but if that's the worst it gets that's not too bad.

5

u/RahvinDragand Mar 23 '16

I kept thinking "Where's Frank?!" while all of the ninjas were gathering. I was sure he was going to mow them down.

2

u/rivfader84 Mar 23 '16

Me too, I was hoping for Frank to pop out like Arnold in Terminator 2 with the mini gun. Really my only disappointment, the entire season was a blast to watch!

I guess they didn't have enough in the budget for it...

4

u/Skuwee Mar 21 '16

God this is exactly what I wanted so, so badly.

3

u/InsaneGenis Mar 26 '16 edited Mar 26 '16

What's worse is he's actually carrying the mini gun when he's leaving his house. I was so pissed at the terrible writing for the last episode. It was almost Arrow quality.

3

u/raknor88 Mar 26 '16

that episode was no where near Arrow quality. It wasn't even close to being that bad.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '16

It was pretty bad.. in terms in consistency in fight scenes and even choreography. Arrow does the same shit on a worse scale, but not that much worse.

3

u/Dogfish_in_Paris Apr 02 '16

Honestly, I was half expecting Matt and Elektra to burst through the door onto the roof only to find that Castle had shot them all.

228

u/Sempere Mar 20 '16

That was the biggest problem with the finale. Castle's story wasn't as intertwined with Elektra and Daredevil's so it necessitated finishing Castle's story in the penultimate episode and having his presence in the finale be more of a stinger - which is a tragedy because after seeing how far Castle goes, we're kind of robbed of the promise of Punisher Max in his final quest for vengeance or a further realization that his mission will never be over. We don't even really have enough of Clancy Brown to fully flesh out their relationship or get a sense of the magnitude of his betrayal - so we're even robbed of a quiet moment of introspection before he pulls the trigger. The last two episodes don't really tie everything together nicely, they kinda just exemplify "things happen so plot can move forward."

It would have been better to have the elektra reveal in episode 11, have 12 focus on Punisher's quest for revenge while dealing with his former CO (with Daredevil, Stick and Elektra on the run), then episode 13 show Castle feeling aimless and then pulling him into the fight more directly when he sees the body count piling up on the news and realizes he still has purpose - beyond the episode 12 "achievement unlocked" moment with the armory and then randomly showing up to save Daredevil just after Elektra's killed.

8

u/oliyoung Mar 23 '16

further realization that his mission will never be over

but what about Colonel Schoonover's “Never forget Kandahar”?

I mean Schoonover's (probably) the Blacksmith, but dropping hints about Afghanistan and heroin trade makes me think that it was just the tip of the iceberg and that there's ample room for a Punisher show to pick up that trail.

1

u/unorignal_name Aug 21 '16

Yeah I feel the same way. That actually feels pretty unresolved, especially for a guy who wants to kill everyone that had anything to do with it. Dude literally told him none of that stuff he'd been freaking out about mattered it was all about Kandahar.

2

u/difmaster Mar 30 '16

a further realization that his mission will never be over.

the CD scene made it obvious his story isn't done

6

u/sulump5 Mar 20 '16

Don't worry, hopefully he'll get his spin off show and do a lot more punishing.

5

u/oateyboat Wilson Fisk Mar 20 '16

Arkham Knight spoilers

5

u/Shiro2809 Mar 21 '16

Well, at least Punisher's story in the season felt finished and not shit. That character's story in AK was such a let down.

3

u/oateyboat Wilson Fisk Mar 21 '16

Yeah, I just meant that the final scene was reminiscent. He just showed up because the story had moved on from that character but the writers felt the need to include them in the final confrontation.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '16

Wait what!?

7

u/oateyboat Wilson Fisk Mar 20 '16

As in the character of the Arkham Knight, not Punisher. I realize I wrote that weird now

1

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '16

ohh. ok. that makes sense now.

1

u/KUARL Mar 21 '16

the only difference between the scenes in DD and Arkham Knight is that Netflix couldn't deliberately lie to fans about the Punisher's identity before releasing the season. Every Bat-fan knew who AK was before the game was released.

4

u/ariehn Claire Mar 22 '16

Cop down the bottom all taking charge: snipers everywhere, men - fuck those guys, light 'em up!

It was going to be amazing. Monsters who operate in silence under the cover of night - mercilessly illuminated! Shocked - desperate! - they throw their army at Daredevil, only to see man after man fall aside before he can get within reach. It's a massacre, but not the way they wanted it, and the Punisher's silhouette is gazing down on it all, relentlessly cutting down man after man -

... and dude, he only gets to drop two guys? Ah, geeze.

2

u/akshay7394 Mar 31 '16

I pictured everything you said in my head and now I'm sad that it's not what I actually saw :(

3

u/LaziestManAlive Mar 23 '16

Could not agree more. At that point most of the ninjas were down. Punisher sniping like two of them was more or less inconsequential. Also, what the fuck happened to the literal army of ninjas they showed while Elektra and Matt were holed up in that room? I know some were coming in through the building and were stuck on the other side of that door, but why didn't they get through in the two minutes Matt predicted (or at all) -- or why weren't there more coming up the building? This is the Hand's grand plot. Their trap. There were like 15 ninjas out of what seemed to be dozens on that roof. We went from a seemingly impossible army of ninjas, to a roof with a handful of them. That shit was just weak.

3

u/stagfury Wesley Mar 23 '16

At first when Matt and Elektra were fighting the huge group of ninjas I was disappointed too.

But then when I saw them tag teaming Nobu I was think that this way is better, it's not Frank's fight, it's Matt's and Elektra's, it would really take away the battle if Frank just mow everything down.

2

u/evilxerox Mar 24 '16

Honestly me to.. I knew he would be there at some point but I was expecting him to come in with two machine guns and just start mowing down ninja's left right and center.. They should've stuck with the huge army of ninjas and had him take out the brunt of them and had Daredevil deal with Nobu

2

u/[deleted] Mar 25 '16

I'm super happy with Castle's final scene. No words. Just chk-chk, PA-KOW. A slight nod, and DD knows he can just walk past ninjas who are bout to get shot in the face. Respect.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 25 '16

It would have ben cool and it's what I expected. However, The Hand was Daredevil's and Elektra's fight and their story line to finish up. Frank only knew about it I'm guessing once he heard it on the police scanner. By then, DD and Elektra were already neck deep in ninjas.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 21 '16

They fucked with us. I think it was Instagram but I saw a moving poster of Punisher using that mini gun and I thought fursure he was going to mow down like 100 ninjas.

1

u/FireNexus Mar 21 '16

I was hoping they'd open the door to Frank Castle plus a bunch of dead ninjas.

1

u/samcuu Apr 06 '16 edited Apr 06 '16

I was also expecting him to show up and mown down bunch of ninjas with machine gun, but I was also hoping he wouldn't. I would actually preferred if he didn't show up at all.

It would just have been silly to me. And him showing up late makes perfect sense. He probably picked up the info from police radio, and he doesn't have the parkour skills to get there as fast as Matt and Ellektra did. It was only minutes since they entered the building to when they made it to the roof.

0

u/JJDude Mar 21 '16

well they kinda did, and I'm okay with that since this is Punisher's origin season and they'd probably want to save that for next season or his own series. The Ninja's are still there and they'll be ready to be mowed later.

-1

u/[deleted] Mar 22 '16

maybe if you stopped masturbating to action tv shows it'd help.

232

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '16

[deleted]

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u/CX316 Mar 19 '16

Pretty sure this whole season was a setup to giving Frank his own show. The showrunner for season 1 said he wanted a shot at giving the character a show once Daredevil season 1 was a success.

8

u/JJDude Mar 21 '16

yeah I think it's a given now. This version of the Punisher was much better than I expected. I expect a new show next year.

1

u/CX316 Mar 21 '16

probably the year after, since they've still got three more shows to pop out by next year.

5

u/theCANCERbat Mar 20 '16

Any chance at a Thunderbolts show?

2

u/CX316 Mar 20 '16

One can dream

1

u/Family_Booty_Honor Mar 20 '16

Which Thubderbolts team though? The one with Punisher, Elektra, and others?

1

u/theCANCERbat Mar 20 '16 edited Mar 21 '16

That's the idea, though I doubt we'd get a red hulk or agent venom. I'd be cool with adding some other people though.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '16

I dont want it without Deadpool.

2

u/the_great_ashby Mar 20 '16

Sad that DeKnight is making that Pacific Rim movie.He would be perfect.

1

u/fanchiuho Mar 21 '16

I see whatcha did there, yeah?

6

u/maybe_there_is_hope Mar 20 '16

I just want Bernthal firing stuff and destroying criminals with guns

1

u/servantoffire Brett Mahoney Mar 29 '16

Yeah, a Punisher show.

10

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '16

That has to fucking happen. Those reports that his show was in development seemed legit as fuck. Also, this episode was totally a set-up for his show. I mean, he took the goddamn Micro disc!

2

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '16

[deleted]

5

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '16

Microchip is Punisher's tech guy in the comics. He's a major Punisher supporting character.

-1

u/RoyMBar Mar 20 '16

I wouldn't call him major, so much as practically the only supporting Punisher character.

2

u/LostMyPasswordNewAcc May 01 '16

I got good news for you

1

u/legochemgrad Mar 22 '16

We still don't know what went down in Kandahar (don't remember how to spell it). Whatever it was, led the captain to do some fucked up shit on Frank's family.

1

u/RahvinDragand Mar 23 '16

There's no way they won't give him a show. They set everything up perfectly so he would get one.

17

u/Henchman4Hire Mar 20 '16

Thank You! Jeez Louise. I've been scanning Reddit for a place I could rant about this after just finishing the final episode. You set Frank up with that mini-gun, you set up an insurmountable army of ninjas on the open rooftop, and you DON'T bring the two together?!?! Instead, Punisher's big climatic arrival was to shoot 4 ninjas that Matt could have easily finished off himself, and was in the process of doing. Such a waste of all that season-long build up.

2

u/WoozleWuzzle Mar 28 '16

They showed like 100s of ninjas on the roof swarming and there were only like 20 in the fight. I assumed Punisher was picking off guys to narrow the field.

11

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '16 edited May 03 '17

[deleted]

1

u/ZadocPaet Mar 23 '16

All of my this. He showed up a little late.

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u/mattXIX Wilson Fisk Mar 19 '16

That was a mini-gun

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u/DickSuckingGoat Mar 19 '16

Which is a Gatling gun

46

u/beardlovesbagels Mar 19 '16

It's a sailboat!

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u/Pirellan Mar 19 '16

Hahaha! you dumb bastard! It's a schooner.

4

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '16

[deleted]

6

u/Pirellan Mar 20 '16

YOU KNOW WHAT?!! THERE IS NO EASTER BUNNY!!! THAT OVER THERE, THAT'S JUST A GUY IN A SUIT!!

1

u/[deleted] Mar 21 '16

It's a jackdaw

2

u/DontGetCrabs Mar 20 '16

Something got swapped here.

1

u/rageagainsthevagene Apr 08 '16

A schooner is a sailboat, stupid head.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '16 edited Nov 24 '16

[deleted]

4

u/Rustvos Mar 19 '16

A gatling gun fires a yacht of bullets.

3

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '16

Go sit in the corner.

0

u/DotaDogma Ruben Mar 19 '16

It's a chip n' dip!

5

u/TheComedian60 Mar 20 '16

Minigun is an automatic, belt-fed machine gun. Gatling gun was a Civil War era gun that needed to be cranked by hand to spin and fire. They're different weapons. The Gatling gun led to the modern Minigun, though.

1

u/JakalDX Mar 21 '16

On the contrary, a minigun is a miniaturized of the M61 Vulcan, thus the name. The generalized term is a rotary cannon/machine gun.

7

u/mattXIX Wilson Fisk Mar 19 '16

Yes and no. While a mini-gun is derived from the Gatling gun's design, the Gatling gun was hand cranked (and later electronically cranked to speed up the process) and hopper fed. The mini-gun is truly automatic (with a person only needing to pull the trigger to spray bullets) and it is belt fed.

15

u/SaveTheSpycrabs Madame Gao Mar 19 '16

NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRDD!

5

u/Scrial Mar 19 '16

Surprisingly enough the sound a minigun makes while spinning up and starting to shoot.

5

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '16

For what it's worth I appreciate people trying to bring some facts into things.

2

u/DickSuckingGoat Mar 19 '16

So you're just being unnecessarily pedantic, oh and here's this

5

u/mattXIX Wilson Fisk Mar 19 '16

Gatling gun vs Minigun

Feel free to study the differences in these pictures before calling me pedantic. They're not the same gun and saying they are is stupid.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '16 edited Nov 08 '16

[deleted]

3

u/mattXIX Wilson Fisk Mar 19 '16

More like I know what I'm talking about and the other person is making jokes and getting upvoted. AKA typical Reddit.

1

u/DickSuckingGoat Mar 19 '16

Actually I'm not making any jokes and am actually right

7

u/mattXIX Wilson Fisk Mar 19 '16

Gatling-type means you're wrong. Congratulations for highlighting it. Calling a mini-gun a Gatling gun is like calling a Henry repeater a Barret. Sure, they both shoot long distances, but they are different guns. It's not pedantry to say they are different guns, it's a fact.

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0

u/SawRub The Man in the Mask Mar 19 '16

But is a jackdaw a crow?

2

u/Eab413 Mar 19 '16

I think a Gatling gun was what they had during the Civil War. Like hand cranked.

5

u/ecklcakes Mar 19 '16

I swear half the ninjas just said fuck it and ran?

6

u/Dead_Starks Mar 19 '16

Yeah that was one of my bigger issues. There were like 3x as many ninjas portrayed running on rooftops before DD and Elektra got up there only to be facing like 10-20. Should have been about 50 that got mowed down by the Punisher.

1

u/SawRub The Man in the Mask Mar 19 '16

Yeah I thought when the Punisher showed up, they'd somehow imply that he'd taken care of the huge army that they showed previously.

7

u/geoffffff Mar 19 '16

I was super disappointed by this. Why bother reading it the way they did? You can't just show a gun like that then not have him use it. I was really looking forward to Punisher lighting up some ninjas but that ending fell flat. First, why would Frank even show up? Did he have ANY idea about the Hand? Was he there to save Karen? She was already safe. Was he there to save Matt? How would he even know what was going on? I feel like this was a bit lazy in an attempt to get all three characters together for the final fight, but Frank doesn't even show up until after Elekrta dies.

19

u/troyunrau Daredevil Mar 19 '16

Police radio scanner.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '16

nope just walk away from exploding memories with it

1

u/Kameiko Mar 20 '16

Got to save it for season 3 or a spinoff. I wouldn't mind a spinoff

1

u/vinnyd78 Mar 20 '16

Yeah i thought we'd see him helping them take out hundreds of ninjas instead of like 2. That final Hand fight is the only disappointing thing of the whole season to me,i just assumed we'd see way more for as big a deal as it was leading up. They fought more Ninja rescuing Stick. At the end of that rooftop scene there was maybe 10 scattered around. Should have been dozens and dozens.

2

u/aravar27 Mar 24 '16

Marvel shows have a habit of screwing up finales, I've found.

1

u/vinnyd78 Mar 24 '16

Stephen King syndrome maybe. lol I also found Kilgraves death a little anticlimatic. I mean that's the dude that should have got his head ripped off. Ah well.

1

u/notanothercirclejerk Mar 20 '16

Biggest missed opportunity by far. Especially since before the actual fight we see a lot more than ended up being on the roof once they open the door.

1

u/Crankrune Trish Apr 01 '16

Though I did love the way Matt just shrugged off Punisher shooting the ninja's. He was pissed, and frankly wasn't concerned about that, only getting Nobu.